First felony sentencing for Jan 6th DC riot. How does it compare to the 2020 riots?

[17thfabn]

A federal judge handed out the 1st sentence for the January 6th DC riot.  He got 8 months, the prosecution wanted much more and the defense wanted no time. 

I don't know if this is a fair sentence or not but it does seem about right. The individual is not accused of any violent actions, but interfering with the congress is a major deal.

I am curious how people who participated in the riots across the US in 2020 have been treated. I am not talking about any one who peacefully demonstrated. I am talking about any one who broke laws while rioting, eg robbery, assault, theft, vandalism, arson. 

 

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-07-19/man-faces-sentencing-felony-us-capitol-riot

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-man-gets-8-months-in-prison-in-1st-felony-sentence-from-capitol-riot/ar-AAMkh2j

%7BFlorida man who was seen carrying a large red "Trump 2020" flag on the floor of the U.S. Senate during the Capitol riot received eight months in prison Monday in the first felony sentence from the Jan. 6 attack.

[rmgill]

So long as such charges are equally applied to everyone as is required by the Constitution (meaning also to Democrats and their allies) who also attempt to disrupt congress. It would be curious to see if action such as breaking into a congressman's office to hold a sit in will result in the same sort of felony charges. 

 

[RETAC21]

First of all, you will have to compare like with like, have the BLM rioters peacefully assaulted a Federal building? has this guy attacked a police offcer? etc. 

[BansheeOne]

I wondered the same when I saw the news yesterday, and found that sympathizers of either side have been complaining that their guys were being treated much harsher, and before that the BLM camp did that protesters were getting raw legal deals. Between all the whining, I still have to find a source merely listing convictions from last year's protests. 

[Markus Becker]

BLM/Antifa rioters are getting prosecuted in Portland ... since Trump is out of office. 

Quote

The charges are a 180-degree turn for left-wing District Attorney Mike Schmidt, who last year dropped over 90 percent of riot and protest-related cases.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/more-than-two-dozen-antifa-rioters-charged-for-portland-mayhem/

[Ivanhoe]

5 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

BLM/Antifa rioters are getting prosecuted in Portland ... since Trump is out of office. 

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/more-than-two-dozen-antifa-rioters-charged-for-portland-mayhem/

Yep;

Quote

In a separate indictment, six other suspects were charged with felony crimes for their alleged roles in the Antifa Inauguration Day riot on Jan. 20. Holding a banner featuring a Kalashnikov rifle that read, “We don’t want Biden — We want revenge,” the group of Antifa marched to the Democratic Party of Oregon building where they started a fire on the street and smashed the building’s windows. Arrestees were found carrying knives, batons and crowbars.

Not surprisingly, biting the hand that frees them.

 

[Ivanhoe]

So just did a google search for "Rowan L. McManigal" mentioned in the above article. Results from:

oregonlive

nypost

gatewaypundit

texasnewstoday

rightwingnewshour

and a bunch of obscure websites.

What's missing from this list?

Sadly amusing; the oregonlive article does not use the word "riot" anywhere. It does use the word "protests."

 

[rmgill]

14 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

First of all, you will have to compare like with like, have the BLM rioters peacefully assaulted a Federal building? has this guy attacked a police offcer? etc. 

Peacefully burned stores down. Politely looted and robbed. Politely assaulted and raped. 
 

[rmgill]

13 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

I wondered the same when I saw the news yesterday, and found that sympathizers of either side have been complaining that their guys were being treated much harsher, and before that the BLM camp did that protesters were getting raw legal deals. Between all the whining, I still have to find a source merely listing convictions from last year's protests. 

Again, we've had 40 plus years of lefty protests that include breaking into government buildings and disrupting operations of the government functionaries. That has been termed as/graded as righteous. 

We had 4 years of various riots over Trump starting with his inauguration. Hell folks here refused to acknowledge that there was rioting. 

More so, there are Lefties who are held up as heroes but who planted bombs and murdered people in the 70s.  

 

[Simon Tan]

Mao laughs at you from the Great Communist Beyond. 

[BansheeOne]

I finally found a source tracking legal cases from both the BLM protests and Capitol assault (though they note that they don't discriminate for ideology, so at this point the list may include cases of counter-demonstrators to the respective events). I'm on my phone which makes it hard to read the spreadsheets, but a search of the BLM list indicates that there have so far been six convictions (mostly for unlawfull possession of firearms), 55 guilty plea bargains and 50 findings of not guilty. I must take a closer look when I get back to my PC. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by BansheeOne

[rmgill]

Seems rather low considering AntiGovernment riots kicked up on the first day of Trump's presidency. 

[BansheeOne]

Shit, I note that I somehow gave a circular link to this thread. Now fixed. This is the correct site:

https://theprosecutionproject.org/2020/12/22/tracking-federal-cases-related-to-summer-protests-riots-uprisings/

And for the Capitol riots:

https://theprosecutionproject.org/january-6th-capital-protests/

Edited July 26, 2021 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Hmph, and now I find the sheet lists pleas, but not the if and what of convictions; my search hits were in the short narratives including prior convictions. That's not much use for our purpose then. It's not that there haven't been any convictions, because much googling yields half a dozen,* but for some reason I can't fathom those obviously interesting details aren't listed by that site.

 

* https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/man-who-brandished-assault-rifle-black-lives-matter-protest-sentenced-46-months

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-marquise-love-protest-beating

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article252883733.html

https://www.kake.com/story/43671634/wichita-blm-protest-organizer-convicted-of-two-of-five-charges-will-appeal

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/jan/22/3-black-rights-protesters-convicted-in-conway/

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by BansheeOne

[R011]

13 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Shit, I note that I somehow gave a circular link to this thread. Now fixed. This is the correct site:

https://theprosecutionproject.org/2020/12/22/tracking-federal-cases-related-to-summer-protests-riots-uprisings/

And for the Capitol riots:

https://theprosecutionproject.org/january-6th-capital-protests/

I see they claim four protesters and one police officer killed.  It would have been much more accurate to say one protester killed and four others who died on natural causes that may or may not have been associated with the days events.

[17thfabn]

3 hours ago, R011 said:

I see they claim four protesters and one police officer killed.  It would have been much more accurate to say one protester killed and four others who died on natural causes that may or may not have been associated with the days events.

From what I read the the four who died after the protest were all ruled natural causes by the coroner. Ashli Babbit  was shot by a police officer.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/brian-sicknick-death-us-capitol-riot/index.html

 

 

[Josh]

I think anyone invading non public spaces or destroying property should be prosecuted, but I suspect it is far more difficult to provide proof against a rioter in a mask at night on an obscure street corner than the nations Capitol building in daylight with numerous participants recording the event. Even if Jan 6th rioters weren't actively filming themselves, they were being taped by their fellow rioters. There was also a lot of press film footage due to the nature of the event and the fact Trump explicitly publicized the event ahead of time.

[rmgill]

25 minutes ago, Josh said:

I think anyone invading non public spaces or destroying property should be prosecuted, but I suspect it is far more difficult to provide proof against a rioter in a mask at night on an obscure street corner than the nations Capitol building in daylight with numerous participants recording the event.

Did you miss the FBI driving around at the ANTIFA protests with vans that geolocate cel phones? How do you think the Feds were snatching ANTIFA rioters off the streets after the repeated attempts to burn the federal court house were doing? 

You'd also think that after a Month plus of rioting that the police could nab repeated actors. Trump got the Feds doing this. The left cried foul. 

However, when those folks were arrested after repeated incidents the left cried that it was unfair that feds were arresting their kind. 

 

25 minutes ago, Josh said:

Even if Jan 6th rioters weren't actively filming themselves, they were being taped by their fellow rioters. There was also a lot of press film footage due to the nature of the event and the fact Trump explicitly publicized the event ahead of time.

Antifa events since the WTO in 1996 were explicitly advertised. And how many of those folks are still running around? 

[Josh]

People cried foul when 'the feds' operated in Portland because they were not coordinating with local law enforcement, not identifying who they worked for, and disappearing people into rental vans.

As for ANTIFA events, I consider that a separate thing from BLM protests. I would say that in scale, the protests (and associated riots in some cities) were large and spontaneous enough to overwhelm local law enforcement. In fact, the Jan 6th riot was large enough to overwhelm local law enforcement. Again, the protesters themselves generally made themselves quite easy to identify visually.

Your narrative seems to be that the FBI didn't do enough to enforce BLM protests - outside of maybe Portland's fed court house, I don't see how it was even their job to do so. Where invading the Capitol is more in their wheel house.

[rmgill]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

People cried foul when 'the feds' operated in Portland because they were not coordinating with local law enforcement, not identifying who they worked for, and disappearing people into rental vans.

Disappearing? They were hauled off to GITMO? No, they were being arrested and being processed at Federal Courts by Federal folks.

Stop lying.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations

2 hours ago, Josh said:

As for ANTIFA events, I consider that a separate thing from BLM protests.

Why? They had some of the same actors, they were of the same party. At this point, if ONE dude shows up to a Trump Rally with a Confederate Flag it's the 2nd Coming of the KKK.

So, sorry. No, you don't get that luxury. You have BLM and Antifa which are BOTH maxist in bent with violent attacks, looting, vandalism and destruction. They're different? How?

2 hours ago, Josh said:

I would say that in scale, the protests (and associated riots in some cities) were large and spontaneous enough to overwhelm local law enforcement.

After 2 days, there's no argument for 'spontaneous' in Oregon. Let alone more than a year.

How many Divisions were standing around with their thumbs up their backsides in DC for how many weeks?

2 hours ago, Josh said:

In fact, the Jan 6th riot was large enough to overwhelm local law enforcement. Again, the protesters themselves generally made themselves quite easy to identify visually.

Antifa and BLM rioters are pretty easy to identify. They're the ones that are burning and looting on a routine basis.

2 hours ago, Josh said:

Your narrative seems to be that the FBI didn't do enough to enforce BLM protests - outside of maybe Portland's fed court house, I don't see how it was even their job to do so. Where invading the Capitol is more in their wheel house.

ANTIFA was trying to burn the place down for months. But lets have a week of interviews and hearings on the one singular incident in DC (But not the one where the rioters were attacking folks on inauguration day).

[nitflegal]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

People cried foul when 'the feds' operated in Portland because they were not coordinating with local law enforcement, not identifying who they worked for, and disappearing people into rental vans.

As for ANTIFA events, I consider that a separate thing from BLM protests. I would say that in scale, the protests (and associated riots in some cities) were large and spontaneous enough to overwhelm local law enforcement. In fact, the Jan 6th riot was large enough to overwhelm local law enforcement. Again, the protesters themselves generally made themselves quite easy to identify visually.

Your narrative seems to be that the FBI didn't do enough to enforce BLM protests - outside of maybe Portland's fed court house, I don't see how it was even their job to do so. Where invading the Capitol is more in their wheel house.

Here is what drives my beliefs.  The same people losing their minds about an insurrection were remarkably OK with the BLM protests that breached the white house fence, led to the President being hustled to the bunker, buildings in DC burned and dozens of injuries on the secret service team.  Attacking the White House is a peaceful protest, attacking the capital and getting one of your own shot is the end of the Republic.  

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, but everyone attacks the White House. Even the British Army.

Id argue the Capitol attack was far more significant. Its the home of your consitution, the central hub of your democracy. The significance of it is far, far higher than just one guy. After all, the 911 attackers dont seem to have had an intent to attack the White House (probably because they knew it was so well defended) but they did have plans on the Capitol building.

The only ones who seem to refuse to see its significance are, interestingly, Americans.

[FALightFighter]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Yeah, but everyone attacks the White House. Even the British Army.

Id argue the Capitol attack was far more significant. Its the home of your consitution, the central hub of your democracy. The significance of it is far, far higher than just one guy. After all, the 911 attackers dont seem to have had an intent to attack the White House (probably because they knew it was so well defended) but they did have plans on the Capitol building.

The only ones who seem to refuse to see its significance are, interestingly, Americans.

And once again the cultural gap is so vast that it almost defi s comprehension.

Beyond the fact that we have a republic, not a democracy, the very intent and design of our federal republic is to NOT have a central hub. These United States are fifty separate and independent states that created a federal government for certain, strictly and explicitly limited functions. Except for gross perversions of the design, most folks should never interact with the federal govt except to voice their opinions of its make up every 2 years. The Senate is supposed to represent the states, not the electorate. And a building certainly isn't anything like the Queen, as even a symbol of the entity that you so overvalue.

And the fact that the 9/11 terrorists placed some value on that building is a weak argument- they also placed some significant value on the WTC (judging by the fact that they targeted that building over the course of a decade or more). The WTC took on much more significance to Americans BECAUSE of the attacks than they ever had before them.

 

[BansheeOne]

1 hour ago, FALightFighter said:

And once again the cultural gap is so vast that it almost defi s comprehension.

Beyond the fact that we have a republic, not a democracy,

Part of the cultural gap being that many Americans consider these two to be mutually exclusive things, which puzzles others to no end. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

2 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

And once again the cultural gap is so vast that it almost defi s comprehension.

Beyond the fact that we have a republic, not a democracy, the very intent and design of our federal republic is to NOT have a central hub. These United States are fifty separate and independent states that created a federal government for certain, strictly and explicitly limited functions. Except for gross perversions of the design, most folks should never interact with the federal govt except to voice their opinions of its make up every 2 years. The Senate is supposed to represent the states, not the electorate. And a building certainly isn't anything like the Queen, as even a symbol of the entity that you so overvalue.

And the fact that the 9/11 terrorists placed some value on that building is a weak argument- they also placed some significant value on the WTC (judging by the fact that they targeted that building over the course of a decade or more). The WTC took on much more significance to Americans BECAUSE of the attacks than they ever had before them.

 

That might be the intent, but seemingly it doesnt work. After all, they have to come to washington to get the serious work done dont they? If the hub is of no relevance, then why do they go to it? They could just as easily vote from home via Skype. The poltical power base that increasingly seems to matter is the Left/Right divide, not the 50  states which to me seem to have less and less relevance.This was brought home to me in and episode of House of Cards, where Frank Underwood resents being called away to his home state to deal with an accident caused by a giant peach (!) whilst an important vote is going down in Washington.

I could point out the cultural gap works in the other direction. The rest of the world look at the senate being stormed, and recognised it as a symbol, whether Americans wish to acknowledge it or not.  They may refuse to, but it still impacts Americas Image. And when some more clueless members of the senate consider anyone arrested during he assault as a  'political prisoner', such terms are going to be lapped up by the likes of the PRC or Russia, or any enemy of democracy, who see it as yet more justification for their assault the international rules based order. Can anyone really look at a guy in Hong Kong arrested for flying a free Hong Kong Flag and seriously conflate them with someone trying to beat a policeman to death? Because the PRC will, I can assure you of that.

Being Tanknets token lefty, ive not really gone out my way to celebrate the Monarchy. And yet, the best argument ever made to me for it as an insitituion was that the monarchy ensures there will never be a President Blair. I might add, it ensures there will never been a President Trump or President Clinton here. For all its evident imperfections, Im very content with that. It diminishes Borish, and we are all delighted with that.

The WTC was important for the name, WORLD Trade Center. It wasnt an attack on just Americans, it was an attack on everyone, and I think it remained the largest loss of British life in a terrorist attack, up till the 7/7 bombings.

 

35 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

Part of the cultural gap being that many Americans consider these two to be mutually exclusive things, which puzzles others to no end. 

Even the DDR recognised Democracy and a Republic were synonymous, even if it clearly didnt understand them. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith