Wobbly Head Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/08/15/what-we-know-about-the-free-speech-rally-planned-this-weekend-on-boston-common There is a rally in Boston on Saturday 19 August with a few of the same speakers that were at Charlottesville. The BPD plans on very different tactics, using community policing, and separation to prevent violence. Curious to see how it pans out. I'm betting on a Antifa KO by the BPD in the third round. Unless the free speech protestors come wearing Montreal Canadian jerseys.For all the crying and wailing by the media Trump was telling the truth which even though unpopular most people See it. It will probably die down in a couple of days as it is not having the desired effect the media wants amongst the general population.You really think only ANTIFA protests White Nationalists?Anyone thinking Trump's argument that both sides were violent is sailient misses the bigger picture.What bigger picture it takes two sides to start a fight otherwise it's just a mosh pit. For however repulsive and vile the Nazi marchers are they have the legal right to march and the right to free speech. Nobody has the right to be violently attacked for exersing their right to free speech by anybody. Remember the quote " I disagree with what you say, but I defend your right to the death to say it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Confederate monuments Why are there monuments outside the former C.S.A.? Even in the west and northwest. Areas that back then have barely been settled and not even states founded and not having taken part in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT96 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Some are because there were CSA POW camps in the north, where CSA prisoners died... Some are because X was a prominent CSA member who later went on to greatness from there after the war... Some are because X was a great man from there who went on to support the CSA cause... Many are because they are a way of "keeping the darkies in their place" A few are because battles were fought there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 What bigger picture it takes two sides to start a fight otherwise it's just a mosh pit. For however repulsive and vile the Nazi marchers are they have the legal right to march and the right to free speech. Nobody has the right to be violently attacked for exersing their right to free speech by anybody. Remember the quote " I disagree with what you say, but I defend your right to the death to say it." A stance that the ACLU used to take until recently. see here for their position in 1934 regarding actual real Nazis, not those modern day wannbe imitators: SOME of our members have sharply criticized the Union for championing the right of German-American Nazis to hold meetings and to conduct their propaganda. In being consistently libertarian the Liberties Union has never hesitated to take action involving its principles when that action was to the benefit of suppressive, intolerant, demagogic, and generally anti-libertarian elements. In 1934, for example, it sent its general counsel to aid the Friends of New Germany, a Nazi organization, in court proceedings to break down a lawless prohibition of their meeting in New Jersey.This logical gesture was a shock to the howling enemies of the Union, who continually accuse it of being “pro-Communist” because so many of the men and women defended from illegal attacks are workers. It was even criticized by members who would except the German Fascists from their tolerance for the rather good reason that since the Nazis in Germany suppress all civil liberties, their agents should be permitted none in America. Moreover, there was the knowledge that free speech and assemblage would be denied us if these same German Nazis got control of local, city or state government anywhere in America.(...)Some years ago, when the Ku Klux Klan was invading the north, Mayor Curley of Boston, a Catholic, denied this terroristic body the right to hold a meeting and have speeches, but here again the Union protested, not because it had any love for the sheeted and dangerous yokels, but because it knew that if the Mayor suppressed the Klan he would lawlessly stop others he disliked — birth control advocates, union organizers, pacifists, etc. “And,” continues the report, “he did. Our protest began when his lawless suppression began. We do not choose our clients. Lawless authorities denying their rights choose them for us.” “Few of our critics,” replied the Union, “take a frankly class position on the exercise of free speech, as do the Communists — denying to reactionaries the rights they seek for themselves. Emotions of hate and intolerance alone lead them to outlaw the Nazis.But if the Union yielded to such critics, and condoned the denial of rights to Nazi propagandists, in what position would it be to champion the rights of others? Shall we choose to defend only progressive or radical causes? And if we do, how best can we defend them? Is it not clear that free speech as a practical tactic, not only an abstract principle, demands defense of the rights of all who are attacked in order to obtain the rights of any?” It was on precisely such a basis that our attorneys, both Jews, urged on the Mayer of New York the use of city property for a meeting of the persecutors of Jews, the Nazis; and that our general counsel, Arthur Garfield Hays, a Jew, aided the attorney for the Friends of New Germany (Nazi) in court proceedings to break down a lawless prohibition of their meetings in New Jersey.[…]We do not choose our clients. Lawless authorities denying their rights choose them for us. To those who advocate suppressing propaganda they hate, we ask--where do you draw the line? They can answer only in the terms of revolutionists--at our political enemies. But experience shows that “political enemies” is a broad term, and has covered the breaking up even of working class meetings by rival working class organizations. It illustrates the danger, and the impracticality of making any distinctions in defending rights sought by all. http://documents.latimes.com/aclu-asks-1934-shall-we-defend-free-speech-nazis-america/ https://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/you-cant-do-eternal-vigilance and today Reuters reports that the ACLU will no longer defend civil rights and bow before the screaming virtual mob: The American Civil Liberties Union will no longer defend hate groups seeking to march with firearms, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday, a policy change that comes on the heels of protests by white nationalists and counter-protesters at the weekend in Virginia. An ACLU spokeswoman confirmed the policy shift and said the concern over weapons was not something the group has had to contend with in the past."We’ve had people with odious views, all manner of bigots. But not people who want to carry weapons and are intent on committing violence," ACLU spokeswoman Stacy Sullivan said in a telephone interview. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-virginia-protests-aclu-idUSKCN1AY06L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Why Nazis must have freedom of speechSeven reasons why the far right should never be censored. 1) Freedom of speech is indivisible or it does not exist 2) Okaying the censorship of Nazis would set a lethal precedent 3) Free speech for Nazis means free speech for you 4) Censoring Nazis would weaken public virtueCensorship doesn’t only silence the individual who wants to get something off his chest — it also disempowers us, the potential audience to that speech. It deprives us of the right to hear and judge for ourselves. It infantilises us through absolving us of the responsibility to use our mental and moral muscles and instead allowing someone else to decide on our behalf that a certain idea is wicked or wrong. To silence far-right and racist thinking would prevent the civic-minded public from having a reckoning with such foul ideas, from confronting them in the public glare and both using reason and appealing to reason in a battle of our ideas against theirs. It would decommission our responsibility as citizens to stand up to prejudice by making that the job of officialdom instead, in the process making equality a shallow, enforced value rather than a lived ideal we all have a part in defending. 5) Censoring Nazis helps them more than it hurts them 6) Censoring racism demeans minority groups 7) You cannot defeat Nazism by aping it I like no. 4, because censorship keeps the public in leading strings. And nazis in my experience make fools of themselves when they talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/08/15/what-we-know-about-the-free-speech-rally-planned-this-weekend-on-boston-common There is a rally in Boston on Saturday 19 August with a few of the same speakers that were at Charlottesville. The BPD plans on very different tactics, using community policing, and separation to prevent violence. Curious to see how it pans out. I'm betting on a Antifa KO by the BPD in the third round. Unless the free speech protestors come wearing Montreal Canadian jerseys.For all the crying and wailing by the media Trump was telling the truth which even though unpopular most people See it. It will probably die down in a couple of days as it is not having the desired effect the media wants amongst the general population.You really think only ANTIFA protests White Nationalists?Anyone thinking Trump's argument that both sides were violent is sailient misses the bigger picture.What bigger picture it takes two sides to start a fight otherwise it's just a mosh pit. For however repulsive and vile the Nazi marchers are they have the legal right to march and the right to free speech. Nobody has the right to be violently attacked for exersing their right to free speech by anybody. Remember the quote " I disagree with what you say, but I defend your right to the death to say it."I dont disagree with that. The bigger picture is that the White Supremacists and David Duke were pissed by Trump's statements on Monday, told him not to forget who put him in office, and not to be bullied by the MSM. On Tuesday he appeared to comply and they thanked him profusely. Regardless of the micro-issue of who started the tactical level violence, even with the murder of the counter-protester, the self described "Alt Right" view this as a Macro Strategic Communications victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 This will solve the problem.... http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/08/18/peak-ridiculous-here-are-the-confederate-flag-looking-tiles-being-removed-from-nyc-subway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 This will solve the problem.... http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/08/18/peak-ridiculous-here-are-the-confederate-flag-looking-tiles-being-removed-from-nyc-subway/ isn't the r Some are because there were CSA POW camps in the north, where CSA prisoners died... Some are because X was a prominent CSA member who later went on to greatness from there after the war... Some are because X was a great man from there who went on to support the CSA cause... Many are because they are a way of "keeping the darkies in their place" A few are because battles were fought there. thank you. that makes sense. though California or washington etc. barely if anything had to do with the war.ed flag with the crossed star strewn bars in blue a post civil war inventtion actually? It was the C.S.A. naval jack originally IIRC (ha like the UK not having a proper flag, just a jack ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Ras Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 This will solve the problem.... http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/08/18/peak-ridiculous-here-are-the-confederate-flag-looking-tiles-being-removed-from-nyc-subway/Good grief. --Soren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Why are there monuments outside the former C.S.A.? Even in the west and northwest. Areas that back then have barely been settled and not even states founded and not having taken part in the war. Because people would have a collection of veterans from the Civil war living in an area, they'd get to see each other during the local veterans day events and when they died their families would decide to put up a monument. At the end of things these veterans are still men, their families still love them and they still miss them. More so, many families put up monuments in the south because they were putting up markers for people who never had a marker because they died in skirmishes and were buried in unmarked graves, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) Many are because they are a way of "keeping the darkies in their place" Yeah, in part. But if the left was really into getting rid of things meant to "keep the darkies in their place", why don't they help us get rid of ALL of the Jim Crow Laws? Because those do FAR more to harm the underclass than a stone monument somewhere. The fact that the leftist radicals tried to tear down a statue for peace after the civil war, I dispute that they really care about any of the details at all. I doubt the homeless guy who asked me for money for water yesterday cared much if the statue of Henry Grady was down the street or not and even if 1 block from where he stood there was a race riot 111 years before. As Pete posted yesterday from a friend of his... "You wanna make a difference....spending 10 hours at a rally to tear down a statue ain't it. I live in Alabama in a city of 25,000 people. In my city, the school system has documented and registered 27 different languages spoken at home. Instead of protesting on Sat....volunteer to help a child learn to read because their Mom works 2 jobs and can't help. I did it for 3 years. And there is nothing in my life that is more rewarding than to see 6 year old child's eyes light up when they realize.....I CAN DO THIS!" Edited August 18, 2017 by rmgill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT96 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Because this isn't about racism, or racist histories, or monuments to failed causes, or the dishonoring of confederates, etc. This is a club with which to attack the right. Here, Democrats are tearing down statues put up by Democrats remembering a cause and a war started by Democrats, yet somehow this is a Republican problem. They would attack the Republicans themselves (Both rank and file people, and the politicians themselves) if they could get away with it (and in several cases did anyway). Instead they go after the next best thing for the Object of Hate of the Day. When they are done with Confederate Statues they'll go after others (Rushmore is already on that list, as are a few Lincoln ones). They've started desecrating graves. Living people are not far down this list, and I see little indication of it slowing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) To be fair, the statue thing was a minor sideshow at best until the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" troll rally. Boston is the next test case...tomorrow. my wife's good friend, an Afghan combat vet and mother of three, is going to protest. She is not a member of Antifa. Edited August 18, 2017 by Paul G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 To be fair, the statue thing was a minor sideshow at best until the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" troll rally. Boston is the next test case...tomorrow. my wife's good friend, an Afghan combat vet and mother of three, is going to protest. She is not a member of Antifa.I hope she can help keep it sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/poll-americans-agree-with-trump-confederate-statues-should-stayDomenico Montanaro ✔@DomenicoNPRNotable from @NPR @NewsHour @maristpoll:Shd Confederate statues remain or be removed?62% remain27% remove http://www.npr.org/2017/08/16/543957964/poll-majority-believe-trump-s-response-to-charlottesville-hasn-t-been-strong-eno …3:25 PM - Aug 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/ "The Story of Charlottesville Was Written in Blood in the Ukraine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/ "The Story of Charlottesville Was Written in Blood in the Ukraine"Counterpunch is a leftwing rag: "... the subversion of Venezuela..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/ "The Story of Charlottesville Was Written in Blood in the Ukraine"Counterpunch is a leftwing rag: "... the subversion of Venezuela..." Don't you know? Everything is about Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/ "The Story of Charlottesville Was Written in Blood in the Ukraine"Counterpunch is a leftwing rag: "... the subversion of Venezuela..." ...and CNN is official fake news, according to President of USA.Anyway, seems like this time "leftwing rag" is useful to predict events development.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFSW0id36FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/ "The Story of Charlottesville Was Written in Blood in the Ukraine"Counterpunch is a leftwing rag: "... the subversion of Venezuela..." Don't you know? Everything is about Ukraine. Actually not "about Ukraine" but about how events are developing everywhere this hate technology is used. Ukraine is just another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 And about CNN "experts"http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/politics/pussy-riot-nadya-tolokonnikova-putin-trump-russia/index.html?CNNPolitics=Tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) This will solve the problem.... http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/08/18/peak-ridiculous-here-are-the-confederate-flag-looking-tiles-being-removed-from-nyc-subway/Good grief. --Soren This will solve the problem.... http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/08/18/peak-ridiculous-here-are-the-confederate-flag-looking-tiles-being-removed-from-nyc-subway/Good grief. --Soren You wait till they start banning the showing of the Norwegian flag in public. Or shelling Russian warships when they come on port visits. This is conclusive proof that Jack Ripper was entirely right about the Fluoridation of water. Go back to bourbon or watery beer, America was far happier as a nation. Edited August 22, 2017 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) And about CNN "experts"http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/politics/pussy-riot-nadya-tolokonnikova-putin-trump-russia/index.html?CNNPolitics=Tw I think she is coming at things from the wrong end. Trump isnt the cause of authoritarianism. If anything, I think the reason why he rose in the US is a desperate attempt to try and stymie the kind of authoritarian crap that we have seen all though this confederate statue debacle. The irony is (and you can agree or disagree with all he said on whether both protesting sides were equally culpable of violence) he is right about the removal of the statues removing the nation's history. You dont have to admire what Stonewall Jackson or Lee fought for to respect the bravery of the men who fought for them, or regard this attempt to airbrush history as deeply troubling to say the least. Trump was right on that. As far as Democracy being eroded, Nadezda is entirely right, as she is about a good many things. And its frightening. Im reminded by that scene in 'I Claudius' where Claudius tells Britannicus he has been acting the way he has as a ruse to bring back the Republic. 'But nobody believes in that anymore!' Britannicus says. Yes, thats the world I think we are living in now. Edited August 22, 2017 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now