Israeli Afvs

[Colin]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:02 PM, R011 said:

Probably not.  Biden is no Teddy Roosevelt.  The US won't be sending in the Marines.  They might be very angry, though, and send hamas a letter saying so.

The US fleet main job appears to warning off Iran and Hezbollah from doing anything more than some sympathy rockets. 

[ex2cav]

13 hours ago, Colin said:

The US fleet main job appears to warning off Iran and Hezbollah from doing anything more than some sympathy rockets. 

IMO it's to warn the rest of the ME not to get involved. Iran and Hezbollah and certainly Iran have limited means to do lasting damage to Israel. 

[ex2cav]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:38 PM, Strannik said:

Video 18+ of Hamas driving in / walking into IL military base. 

 

Not to speak ill of the dead, but were those deceased even in the IA????? Talk about getting caught with your pants down...

[bojan]

"Cope cages" on the vehicles. Judging by the speed those appeared, it seems to me that manufacture of those started before current shitstorm.

Now I am waiting for twatterati (and their folowers) to explain to us how those are totally useless vs ATGMs and hence IDF are clueless morons for installing them.

[Strannik]

Wrong thread

Edited October 16, 2023 by Strannik

[Strannik]

Claim of a Mk4 destruction at the Lebanese border. 

2nd video features the "additional" 2nd launch (which to me looks like a recap) Not clear what happened to the tank (some claim it drove away)

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Strannik

[lucklucky]

1 hour ago, bojan said:

"Cope cages" on the vehicles. Judging by the speed those appeared, it seems to me that manufacture of those started before current shitstorm.

Now I am waiting for twatterati (and their folowers) to explain to us how those are totally useless vs ATGMs and hence IDF are clueless morons for installing them.

I don't think they are there for ATGM, but are for drone grenades but on your critique subject i think there is also an aesthetic definition of the tank and the preference for sophisticated solutions over simple ugly ones. "Modern" countries make modern techno stuff not primitive.

Curious if it covers above the engine.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by lucklucky

[bojan]

24 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

I don't think they are there for ATGM

Ofc they are not, just like Russian ones were not. Did not spot twatterati and followers from talking BS.

 

Quote

, but are for drone grenades 

More likely originally developed vs things dropped from high rises and RPGs fired from top floors. At the last Gaza shitshow (2021 IIRC?) Some Merks were spotted previously with 4 mounting points on the turret, it was not clear for what back then, but it appears those are for "roofs"

 

Quote

..."Modern" countries make modern techno stuff not primitive.

If it is primitive but is minimal investment of time and money and reduces dangers to vehicle and crew, can it be really called primitive  

 

Quote

Curious if it covers above the engine.

It appears it only covers turret, because as with Russian version protection of the crew compartment is a priority.

[Strannik]

7 hours ago, ex2cav said:

IMO it's to warn the rest of the ME not to get involved. Iran and Hezbollah and certainly Iran have limited means to do lasting damage to Israel. 

If Israel strikes Iran first I doubt they will take it on a chin, carriers or not.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Strannik

[lucklucky]

1 hour ago, bojan said:

If it is primitive but is minimal investment of time and money and reduces dangers to vehicle and crew, can it be really called primitive

But modern people need to have everything analysed to be everything perfect 😄

[Mighty_Zuk]

6 hours ago, Strannik said:

Claim of a Mk4 destruction at the Lebanese border. 

2nd video features the "additional" 2nd launch (which to me looks like a recap) Not clear what happened to the tank (some claim it drove away)

 

 

 

The impact angle, as well as the fact the smoke grenades ignited, indicates the tank was damaged and likely needs to have a few parts replaced, but is not destroyed and almost definitely was not penetrated.

Exposure of soldiers like that to Hezbollah's LoS is a demonstration of poor soldiery and junior command skills.

 

Also cope cages are a welcome addition considering Merkavas have not adopted RCWS, an unfortunate decision in itself.

[Jim Warford]

[crazyinsane105]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:45 PM, Mighty_Zuk said:

I was wrong. Now I see the system was indeed active and shutters were off. You can see it by looking at the right side launcher.

I now remember the Trophy is programmed to be selectively responsive. Perhaps the RPG was considered a too light threat? If it'd hit exactly between the turret and hull I'm sure it'd be serious damage. 

There's also a possibility that the RPG was fired from closer than the Trophy can react. Using a radar and rotating launcher has its limitations. New Trophy variants use optics to shorten the time but I can't ID the specific variant here.

Trophy is not effective for threats under 50 meters, which is what is specifically stated in the Iranian manuals pulled off Hamas fighters. Given that we have seen multiple Merkava 4s knocked out or abandoned, this very likely is the case.

Hamas drones scouted ahead and determined where the Merkavas were approaching from, which gave anti tank crews ample time to prepare ambushed at close range. 

Seems like RPGs and recoiless rifles are the most effective against Trophy, not Kornet or Métis. Who would have figured 

Edited October 25, 2023 by crazyinsane105

[Wiedzmin]

Some strange additions on hull sides 

 

Rubber + sound isolating pads ?

[Mighty_Zuk]

Tanks from the 7th Bde 77th Btln that were damaged during the Hamas incursion on the 7th of October, have reportedly been restored and are back in service.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13647431

[kokovi]

On 10/16/2023 at 4:40 PM, bojan said:

 

It appears it only covers turret, because as with Russian version protection of the crew compartment is a priority.

As Merkava has a front engine, it is probably sufficiently protected against drone grenades by the hull armour.

[Sardaukar]

24 minutes ago, kokovi said:

As Merkava has a front engine, it is probably sufficiently protected against drone grenades by the hull armour.

Actually not, there is soft spot near the turret that houses fuel tank. 

 

[shep854]

Might the fuel tank be considered part of the armor?  It sounds nuts, but I have heard the idea elsewhere.

[Marsh]

5 minutes ago, shep854 said:

Might the fuel tank be considered part of the armor?  It sounds nuts, but I have heard the idea elsewhere.

Yes, but primarily against HEAT rounds.

[Mighty_Zuk]

7 hours ago, kokovi said:

As Merkava has a front engine, it is probably sufficiently protected against drone grenades by the hull armour.

The driver's hatch is still exposed. Not that there's a realistic option of covering it, though.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 10/16/2023 at 1:31 PM, bojan said:

"Cope cages" on the vehicles. Judging by the speed those appeared, it seems to me that manufacture of those started before current shitstorm.

Now I am waiting for twatterati (and their folowers) to explain to us how those are totally useless vs ATGMs and hence IDF are clueless morons for installing them.

I dont believe anyone suggested they were not useful against drones. Such they were, and such they remain.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:52 AM, Wiedzmin said:

Some strange additions on hull sides 

 

Rubber + sound isolating pads ?

I idly wonder if they did it so it shows up on TIS, so they can figure out who the Troop/company commander is.

[Bichri001]

What are those two add-ons?

1. 
2. 

[bojan]

Mine plow/rollers mounting?

[Mighty_Zuk]

The first, as I recall, is used to ram structures without damaging other components. Without them, mud guards are the first thing to fly off. It seems they are foldable, likely for transportation.

Namer's ram modules look like this:

 

The second is used for towing/being towed. You set up a chain on the rear, attach some contraption, and then when you drive toward another tank, its chain is linked up via the contraption and you can tow it.

There was a video somewhere, can't seem to find it.