Mighty_Zuk

Now let's see what Palestinian products we can boycott in return.

This is unrelated to citizenship. A person can be born without refugee status AND without a citizenship.

Prominent opposition figure and former PM Yair Lapid writes about the grand plan for the day after the war (in Gaza). He says Israel does not have one, that it's not sexy, but it's necessary. Phase 1: Israel's high goals: Return of all captives and identifying all missing persons, eradication of Hamas in Gaza, and restoring a sense of security to border regions. Israel, together with the US and international community, shall financially strangle Hamas and their associates. Israel shall act persistently to eliminate the heads of Hamas wherever they are. Unlike past rounds, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, Israel shall not accept a permanent ceasefire until it achieves its high goals. Israel shall accept time-limited humanitarian pauses and manage an intensity-variable campaign until it achieves its goals. Israel shall create in the north and east of the Gaza strip a demilitarized zone for the defense of its bordering cities, in which Gazan access will be restricted via firepower. The encirclement of Gaza shall include the Philadelphi line (current border between Gaza-Egypt, meaning Egypt will no longer control Rafah). Gaza's demilitarization is an essential condition for the road ahead. The IDF shall continue entering Gaza according to Israel's security needs to prevent Hamas's attempt to seize power again. Israel shall not allow Hamas and its direct and indirect associates a civilian government of Gaza. The civilian government of Gaza shall initially and temporarily be entrusted to an international team led by the US and with Arab participation (except Turkey and Qatar), as well as local entities that are not identified with Hamas. This team shall deal with the management, restoration, and humanitarian assistance to the people of Gaza, and shall construct an organization to replace UNRWA. All PR bodies shall be concentrated under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that will manage a national effort that will mainly focus on American opinion. Israel shall gradually shift to handling the northern situation (Hezbollah), there it will act to implement UNSC Resolution 1701 and for the removal of Hezbollah from the northern border (i.e. southern Lebanon, south of the Litani river). If the political effort will not succees, Israel shall act with military force to remove Hezbollah from the border. Phase 2: Israel shall play a central role in the building of a regional security architecture and international coalition vs Iran. Israel shall reject Palestinian Authority (PA) participation in governing Gaza until it implements a sweeping de-radicalization program, that will include education against incitement, cessation of payment to terrorist (pay per slay program), and combating corruption. Israel shall strive toward a normalization and deepening of security and economical ties with Saudi Arabia. Israel shall initiate a regional forum for the discussion of the Iranian threat and expansion of the Abraham Accords - in the Negev Forum format - to which the PA shall be invited (subject to implementation of the above mentioned reforms). This forum shall set the permanent civilian government regime of Gaza. Israel shall return to its pledge for a political solution (for the Palestinians) but will set it as a long term goal and shall set the preconditions - political and security - that must exist before entering negotiations. Restoration of the Gaza-bordering areas shall be a national priority together with enlargement of the defense budget and changes to the economical structure.

Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon. Many were also from the British Mandatory Palestine but that country no longer exists. Some Palestinian refugees still exist, but perhaps only thousands or tens of thousands at best. It's hard to believe 5.9 million are born before 1948. And if they are all eligible to refugee status, I guess that makes the entire country of Israel as well as pretty much half the world - refugees.

Fact. If refugee status was genetic, everyone would be a refugee by now. That's why it's clearly stated that refugee status does not automatically transfer at birth.

No.

The UN doesn't do humanitarian missions in Gaza outside the work of the ICRC and WHO. UNRWA is not a humanitarian aid organization but a refugee assistance organization like UNHCR. This is important because the aid it provides is strictly intended for refugees, not all Gazans. However, there are no refugees in Gaza or J&S, only some displaced people in Syria whose refugee status is debatable. The refugee status isn't arbitrary. It is clearly defined, and one aspect of it is that refugee status is not passed genetically. Therefore the child of a refugee is not himself automatically a refugee. Palestinians are the only people in the world who genetically acquire refugee status. According to UNHCR's website there are currently 108.4 million refugees worldwide. Of those, 5.9 million are Palestinians. Yet UNRWA takes up about 1/3rd of the entire UN's staff. In Gaza and elsewhere, UNRWA also doesn't generate the aid. It disperses it among the population. But Hamas steals it with no repercussions, so it's exactly the same as giving Hamas everything. The generators of aid are primarily Israel, the US, and Europe. Therefore UNRWA's very existence probably doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Whataboutism is for the less intellectually endowed. Are you sure about this? Yes. Obviously the government. From a scientific point of view, this is physically impossible. To the contrary. The Israeli sense of responsibility for its own security drives consistent increases in the defense budget, not reductions. But the IDF IS Israel, and neither commits genocide. It's a conscription-based army, hence why accusations of genocide, drinking christian babies' blood, and having horns and wings - leveled at the IDF alone, are so often met with accusations of antisemitism.

UNRWA IS the UN. If X country issues a statement that it cuts all relations with another country, or it conduts military operations somewhere, or it divests from public education - are all these issues isolated to their respective offices/ministries? Or are they government policy and the gov't bears responsibility for them? After all, the gov't appoints ministers and staff. If the UN believes it bears no responsibility over the UNRWA and deems it an autonomous body, then UNRWA should be seen as accomplices of Hamas and treated accordingly. If the UN does bear responsibility for UNRWA, then it should be aware that it too will feel the consequences, including in reduced budgets (foreign donations), and aggravation of its reputation problem.

One bad apple is a good projectile. But it's the whole basket that's rotten. They get very frequent reports about their violations and regarding their employees, but they never do anything about it. UNRWA is 1/3rd of the UN in terms of manpower, and its activities have long involved antisemitic education, and political, military, and material support for Hamas. Many of its employees are also Hamas members. It may seem like an overreaction if your familiarity with UNRWA and the UN started today, but if you understand the story goes way back, things start to make sense. There's a reason why the UNRWA is under so much criticism, including its boycott by numerous western nations, and why the UN in general is criticized and disregarded so much.

The UN apparently had custody of at least one hostage, per his testament. If true, this implicates the UN even further than they already were in this tragedy and brutal war against the west. The UN was at the very least obligated to provide him with the necessary care, if not coordinate his release with the IDF. EDIT: Faytuks uses feminine form, but the hostage was male.

Hardly matters. Hamas has a responsibility, under the terms of the agreement, to deliver everyone alive. If they were found to have been killed, Hamas would have to bear responsibility. Their argument is flawed as no airstrike was documented for days at that time. Hamas were caught lying about other hostages' deaths before.

Agreed/Disagreed.

If there was a country that is western in nature but also completely secular without any bullshit religious laws - that one. That's where I'd want to live. In the west, religious laws are far less invasive than in the shithole countries, but that doesn't mean they're non-invasive. I had to take a substantial cut to my paycheck and quality of living to protest against ultra-religious reforms in my country. Western nations also do not recognise family as "the bedrock of society". Pretty much every western nation to some extent tries to define for people what a family should look like. This is particularly apparent in Russia, for example, where there are substantial restrictions on familial structure. Communism is a bad example of the secular world. Communism is a structure of a defined pyramid of classes (elite -> police -> plebs -> gulag meat). Religion is pretty much also that. Since communism and socialism are designed to assert control for an elite over others, it's in direct competition with religion. That's why communist and socialist states always strived to reduce religiosity, as their leaders were seen as the holy deities. Since western governments do not need to assert power through repression, religion is not a competitor, and could even be used as an asset. A secular society is one that abolishes religion due to ideological reasons, not financial or political ones. God is not omnipotent because god does not exist. And religion =/= god. A god is an alleged deity that does fuck all. A religion is a medium between ordinary people and any contemporary designer god. All religions are fundamentally the same: Get money. Fuck bitches. 2,000 years of copy-pasta lore on obedience. I am godless, therefore I must be the destroyer of liberties. How weak must one be to believe that every fruit of his mind is born from the seed of an invisible bearded man?

I give no thought to Varadkar because he represents Ireland, one of the most anti-western nations in the west. If you remember, this discussion started with someone DEFENDING Varadkar. He is unworthy of attention on the one hand, and on the other he is indefensible.