Israeli Afvs

[methos]

56 minutes ago, alejandro_ said:

I asked him to clarify:

So like in this graphic from Stefan's website (yellow: area stabilization, red: video-tracking)?

 

[Stefan Kotsch]

The picture shows what the LEO2 calls Ruecksteuerung (back control or so). Only one additional signal is generated that has its source in the movements of the hull in the transverse and vertical axes and the distance. However, you cannot realize autotracking with this. The procedure is not dependent on the target, but only on the last position of the LOS.

Autotracking relies on weapon stabilization and measures the deviation of the contrast of the image from the target from a software-determined nominal position. Corrections are made in the event of a deviation. If the contrast fails for a short time, this can be bridged for a short time. In which the last signal continues to be used. As a rule, the contrast is determined with the thermal imaging channel.

 

[bojan]

10 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

The picture shows what the LEO2 calls Ruecksteuerung (back control or so)...

 

From what I understand M-84s FCS also has this.

[methos]

9 hours ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

The picture shows what the LEO2 calls Ruecksteuerung (back control or so). Only one additional signal is generated that has its source in the movements of the hull in the transverse and vertical axes and the distance. However, you cannot realize autotracking with this.

Yes, but I was trying to understand the meaning of "area stabilization" and "video tracking". My understanding is that the Merkava I and Merkava II utilized a relatively simple FCS with a stabilizer more comparable M60A1 and Leopard 1A2. So switching from that to an autotracker already in 1989 would have been quite a technological leap.

But it seems that the auto-tracker was only added on the Merkava III Baz model in 1995 according to a 2000 issue of the ARMOR! magazine. I believe that the Merkava III used a system more comparable to the Leopard 2 and M1A1 Abrams.

[Wiedzmin]

Mk4 fuel tanks

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

First serial Eitan firing up:

https://fb.watch/c5f7IUhNvr/

[Helmutkohl]

around 5-10 years ago, Israel claimed (or at least media) that they exported the merkava to an undisclosed customer.

I guess its safe to say that it never went through, but was this customer ever identified?

[Mighty_Zuk]

14 minutes ago, Helmutkohl said:

around 5-10 years ago, Israel claimed (or at least media) that they exported the merkava to an undisclosed customer.

I guess its safe to say that it never went through, but was this customer ever identified?

Nope, because it never went through. What might have actually been done is assurances were given to export in a time of need.

[Wiedzmin]

 

namer APC interesting structure, main side is ~20-30mm thick, then they bolt on bended plate which serve as ERA/addon armor support frame

[Wiedzmin]

 

Mk3 driver site

[Mighty_Zuk]

Unknown AFV spotted on a road in Israel. This is the same turret used on the Eitan and Namer IFVs.

[Mighty_Zuk]

IDF to buy hundreds of light vehicles for SoF.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-709132

[Burncycle360]

Does anyone have the aerial perspective picture where the Eitan and Namer (among other vehicless) are parked together (can't seem to find it any longer). Gave a good sense of scale.

[Wiedzmin]

Mk3 welded turret
 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Bridging Merkava 4

[Damian]

7 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Bridging Merkava 4

And first export of Merkava based vehicle right?

[Mighty_Zuk]

5 minutes ago, Damian said:

And first export of Merkava based vehicle right?

That we know of, yes.

Shame, if the IP for Merkava, Namer, and Eitan belonged to a private company, they'd surely have some export.

[methos]

15 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Shame, if the IP for Merkava, Namer, and Eitan belonged to a private company, they'd surely have some export.

Merkava was at least offered to Sweden and Switzerland (probably to a lot more potential customers) despite the IP being state-owned.

[Mighty_Zuk]

28 minutes ago, methos said:

Merkava was at least offered to Sweden and Switzerland (probably to a lot more potential customers) despite the IP being state-owned.

And Turkey, because perhaps these requested on G2G channels as well. 

G2G deals exist, they are just an order of magnitude less effective.

[alejandro_]

Second part of the interview with Merkava tanker, questions on M60 and T-72.

http://alejandro-8en.blogspot.com/2022/03/a-few-weeks-ago-former-merkava-tanker.html

[Mighty_Zuk]

New article (in Hebrew) talks a little about what there is today, what lies in the future, and that in light of lessons from Ukraine.

Link.

About Ukraine:

In the context of armored warfare and tanks specifically, tanks are proving to be vital to the all domain operations in a kinetic battlefield. About 70% of the target bank of a maneuvering force is generated by the maneuver itself, and the primary source of intelligence during the maneuver is the MBT. 

The tank shows its value even in so-called peace-time operations, or ops between wars, by serving as a powerful sensory and communications node that can deliver immediate firepower.

More generally, the IDF's assessment that 'big wars' are not over, many years ago, turned out to be valid, and the IDF's preparations for almost 2 decades for a high intensity warfare (after a short period of low intensity focus) were not in vain, and the Merkava 4, Namer, and Eitan are great contributors to current state of preparedness. 

 

A little about the current state:

Currently the Merkava, Namer, and Eitan are used not as stepping stones for a general progress as seen in the chart above, but are developed as systems-of-systems, utilizing current well-known, highly modern, and high growth capacity platforms to drive real changes in combat capability right now, and not in 5 or 10 or 20 years.

We can see in the chart that between the Merkava Mark 1 and Mark 4, the progression is very linear. Same goes with APCs like Nagmashot to Achzarit and Nakpadon. From the Merkava 4, it branches out into the Namer, and later to the Eitan. We can also see that these are built, to an extent, as a lesson from the 2006 Lebanon war, which shows the IDF managed to draw the right conclusions and not prepare for a repeat of that war, but an evolved vision of the next war.

After the Merkava 4M in 2010, we see a bridge layer, marked under 2021. We know such a bridge layer was sold to the Philippines, however the IDF's own bridge layers are based on Magach tanks which the IDF has been withdrawing for years. Since AVLBs are very rarely photographed in Israel, there's no way to tell if current AVLBs are being switched to the Merkava. So I don't know how to interpret this chart, especially knowing the chart does not list any unit (user) for the AVLB.

Listed under 2022, we see a Merkava 4 Barak with the 4 regular armored brigades as its users. This is also quite ambiguous. Perhaps they wish to list only active units because otherwise they'd have to list 11 brigades there. Another possibility is that the 4 regular brigades with Merkava 4M tanks will be near-simultaneously upgraded to the Barak. The latter is quite an unlikely scenario.

In the Namer branch we see many different variants today, including a basic APC version later upgraded with Trophy, 3 distinct engineering versions, an ARV version, technical squad vehicle, logistical vehicle, and a turreted variant. A turreted Namer was displayed in 2017, and since then many speculated the project died again, but it being marked specifically under 2022 might mean it's due to enter service very soon along with the Eitan and Merkava 4 Barak.

As a final touch, the article mentions several times that the Merkava 4 tank currently possesses not only powerful sensors, but also EW equipment to counter small drones.

 

A little about the future:

The Barak MBT is not listed as just that. It's listed as "Barak MBT and Lightning Storm".

Lightning storm is a name of a program to create a battlegroup based on existing platforms and matured tech from the Carmel, that would serve as a sturdy basis for the future Kaliyah project, of which the first AFVs are due to enter service in the late 2020's to early 2030's.

The components are described as a family of vehicles consisting of Merkava, Namer, and Eitan variants as well as smaller and lighter vehicles that will be protected by a variety of means. Also included will be remote controlled and later autonomous vehicles. This wording leads me to believe the 'lighter vehicles' are manned.

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Namer ARV entered service, said to be produced in dozens and dispersed among all maneuvering combat units.

 

[Wiedzmin]

 

Mk4 turret frontal module 

[Mighty_Zuk]

IDF continues testing Iron Fist, will be certified for Eitan and D9.

[Rick]

Any reason why Israel did not buy the Leopard 1?