Israeli Afvs

[Strannik]

Trophy is MIA

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

12 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Trophy is MIA

 

Shutter is active, interceptors are covered. Means it's actually turned off entirely.

I assume it's panic affecting their soldiery but this certainly does not bode well for future readiness.

[Strannik]

26 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Shutter is active, interceptors are covered. Means it's actually turned off entirely.

I assume it's panic affecting their soldiery but this certainly does not bode well for future readiness.

Can it even work, forget 24/7, but at least 6-8 hrs straight?   Otherwise instructions to tankers are likely to turn on situationally and  when alert level goes up.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Strannik

[Strannik]

Video 18+ of Hamas driving in / walking into IL military base. 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

5 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Can it even work, forget 24/7, but at least 6-8 hrs straight?   Otherwise instructions to tankers are likely to turn on situationally and  when alert level goes up.

It can work as long as either engine or APU are running. As for instructions? In peacetime you keep it turned off but when you're patrolling in a potential combat zone like Gaza's perimeter or Lebanon border, then you keep it on constantly.

Regarding procedures during active combat, I have no idea.

[Mighty_Zuk]

50 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Trophy is MIA

 

I was wrong. Now I see the system was indeed active and shutters were off. You can see it by looking at the right side launcher.

I now remember the Trophy is programmed to be selectively responsive. Perhaps the RPG was considered a too light threat? If it'd hit exactly between the turret and hull I'm sure it'd be serious damage. 

There's also a possibility that the RPG was fired from closer than the Trophy can react. Using a radar and rotating launcher has its limitations. New Trophy variants use optics to shorten the time but I can't ID the specific variant here.

[alanch90]

Just now, Mighty_Zuk said:

I was wrong. Now I see the system was indeed active and shutters were off. You can see it by looking at the right side launcher.

Thats exactly what I was about to point. Given the record low readiness rate of the units around Gaza, its not impossible that the systems weren´t getting as much maintenance they needed. 

[Strannik]

Israeli tracked vehicles losses log

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Strannik

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 hours ago, Strannik said:

Israeli tracked vehicles losses log

 

These aren't captured, and no vehicle was damaged beyond repair. The bases containing these vehicles were reportedly secured by the IDF. 

Only light vehicles like Humvees and Wranglers were indeed captured.

[MiGG0]

28 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

These aren't captured, and no vehicle was damaged beyond repair. The bases containing these vehicles were reportedly secured by the IDF. 

Only light vehicles like Humvees and Wranglers were indeed captured.

Im surprised if it is the case. Simply Molotov cocktail (to inside), etc would have destroyed all of those beyond repair. Just seems very stupid from Palestanians point of view not to do it.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, MiGG0 said:

Im surprised if it is the case. Simply Molotov cocktail (to inside), etc would have destroyed all of those beyond repair. Just seems very stupid from Palestanians point of view not to do it.

How would a molotov destroy a tank or an APC but not an armored jeep?

[MiGG0]

2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

How would a molotov destroy a tank or an APC but not an armored jeep?

It would, but I just assune they drove them away. They can use those unlike tanks/ifvs that need much more training to be usable.

[Mighty_Zuk]

32 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

It would, but I just assune they drove them away. They can use those unlike tanks/ifvs that need much more training to be usable.

Oh I didn't see you wrote "molotov cocktail to the inside". Yeah that could work, but I'm not sure if they know how to open the hatches.

[MiGG0]

24 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Oh I didn't see you wrote "molotov cocktail to the inside". Yeah that could work, but I'm not sure if they know how to open the hatches.

Im sure they had enought of time and prisoners to figure it out… If they didnt destroy those my concludion is that they didnt even think they get that far as they did.
 

And it still would be very stupid from Palestanians as it very simple ”rule” in raid. Capture whatever you can use, destroy everything else…

[MiGG0]

double…

Edited October 8, 2023 by MiGG0

[Damian]

15 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

I was wrong. Now I see the system was indeed active and shutters were off. You can see it by looking at the right side launcher.

I now remember the Trophy is programmed to be selectively responsive. Perhaps the RPG was considered a too light threat? If it'd hit exactly between the turret and hull I'm sure it'd be serious damage. 

There's also a possibility that the RPG was fired from closer than the Trophy can react. Using a radar and rotating launcher has its limitations. New Trophy variants use optics to shorten the time but I can't ID the specific variant here.

Only because armored covers were lowered, this does not mean that Trophy was active. It should react if it was turned on. IMHO system was simply turned off with armored covers lowered.

[Mighty_Zuk]

10 minutes ago, Damian said:

Only because armored covers were lowered, this does not mean that Trophy was active. It should react if it was turned on. IMHO system was simply turned off with armored covers lowered.

That too is a viable possibility.

43 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

Im sure they had enought of time and prisoners to figure it out… If they didnt destroy those my concludion is that they didnt even think they get that far as they did.
 

And it still would be very stupid from Palestanians as it very simple ”rule” in raid. Capture whatever you can use, destroy everything else…

If we consider their actual goals, then lingering around these tanks trying to destroy them is not going to be in their favor. Get close, vandalize them a bit, take a few photos on top of it, and move on. They had very little time to actually go through the fence, get to the division command, and spread across the nearby cities and villages, kill some, kidnap some and bring them all the way back to Gaza. If possible, make a few trips. In terms of practical gains, a few more dead Israelis or one kidnapped Israeli are worth a lot more than a burnt tank because in the Israeli mindset a burnt tank is an error but civilians with slashed throats is an unforgivable tragedy. That's one thing they take into account. The second thing is that every kidnapped person is going to be a bargaining chip against Israel. If they'd kidnap only a few, Israel may have decided to leave them to their fate (a rescue op is not actually realistic), but with what's reported as over a hundred hostages? Israel is forced to act somehow.

So in short, they did not actually have much time for their parades, and they brought very little AT weapons which as we saw, were eventually only used (per available footage) against manned vehicles.

[MiGG0]

42 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

That too is a viable possibility.

If we consider their actual goals, then lingering around these tanks trying to destroy them is not going to be in their favor. Get close, vandalize them a bit, take a few photos on top of it, and move on. They had very little time to actually go through the fence, get to the division command, and spread across the nearby cities and villages, kill some, kidnap some and bring them all the way back to Gaza. If possible, make a few trips. In terms of practical gains, a few more dead Israelis or one kidnapped Israeli are worth a lot more than a burnt tank because in the Israeli mindset a burnt tank is an error but civilians with slashed throats is an unforgivable tragedy. That's one thing they take into account. The second thing is that every kidnapped person is going to be a bargaining chip against Israel. If they'd kidnap only a few, Israel may have decided to leave them to their fate (a rescue op is not actually realistic), but with what's reported as over a hundred hostages? Israel is forced to act somehow.

So in short, they did not actually have much time for their parades, and they brought very little AT weapons which as we saw, were eventually only used (per available footage) against manned vehicles.

I agree that moving fast was their primary goal, but as they controlled some base(s) and they probably looted place aswell. That will take some time anyway. Burning those vehicles is not going to slow them pretty much at all (looters are different people to those that continue forward) Figuring how to open hatches probably would took 30min at max… (with methods terrorist use)

[Mighty_Zuk]

Yeah well aside from one tank with a burnt engine we don't really have anything concrete about any damaged vehicles.

[MiGG0]

17 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Yeah well aside from one tank with a burnt engine we don't really have anything concrete about any damaged vehicles.

Yeah, and Im not saying Hamas did it. Just that it would be very stupid from their point of view not to do it.

[MiGG0]

Double… again

Edited October 8, 2023 by MiGG0

[shep854]

" If they'd kidnap only a few, Israel may have decided to leave them to their fate (a rescue op is not actually realistic), but with what's reported as over a hundred hostages? Israel is forced to act somehow."--Mighty_Zuk

There are also reports of a number of Americans kidnapped and killed.  THAT will make things complicated.

[sunday]

6 hours ago, shep854 said:

There are also reports of a number of Americans kidnapped and killed.  THAT will make things complicated.

Dual citizens, likely.

[Daan]

Militants climbing a Merkava 4 near the fence and dropping some charge down the hatches, after which the burns and is probably a total write-off:

https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee1/status/1711403661769781344

[R011]

20 hours ago, shep854 said:

" There are also reports of a number of Americans kidnapped and killed.  THAT will make things complicated.

Probably not.  Biden is no Teddy Roosevelt.  The US won't be sending in the Marines.  They might be very angry, though, and send hamas a letter saying so.