Mikel2 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 It's been many years since I read "The War of the Worlds". I had completely forgotten about the valiant Thunderchild battling the Martian tripods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) Ive read the comic book and seen the early movie but never read the novel. Drachs reading made me realize I need to correct that. Edited December 5, 2019 by shep854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Richard Burton demonstrating his magnificent voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 In the book she was described as a Torpedo Ram, which would be akin to a destroyer I suppose. Its only in adaptions its become a vessel like a Dreadnought. I dont believe its even in the current BBC adaption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) A torpedo ram was a vague term and included ships such as HMS Polyphemus and early protected cruisers with torpedoes and rather heavy main guns wich were often seen as flagships/supportships for flottilas of torpedoboats (like the AH Kaiserin Elisabeth Class and the Italian Giovanni Bausan) AFAIK it was never used for destroyer(like) ships, but for heavier ships. From the text of the War of the Worlds, one gets the impression of it being some sort of Polyphemus like ship, albeit with more gunpower. Edited December 5, 2019 by Inhapi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Wells was something of a military wargamer, so I would not be surprised if he based it on something real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) Well, HMS Polyphemus was classified as a torpedo ram. the tactics Thunderchild uses are clearly those ascribed to Polyphemus: gettin into ramming position. Note that in the book reference is made of what seems to be a battle-line of other more regular ironclads standing of in the distance and not going in for ramming. HMS Polyphemus was OFC primarly a torpedo carrier, but her name "Torpedo ram" and her agressive looks that scream ramming attack has always made her in the eyes of the public a ship build primarly for ramming. Also Polyphemus most publicised feat was the breaking (by ramming) of the boom at Berehaven (i believe) during excercises, simulating an attack on a anchorage defended by a heavy boom and nets. So i'd go for Thunderchild being based on Polyphemus. public depiction of Polyphemus: Edited December 5, 2019 by Inhapi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikel2 Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikel2 Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 Oooh... A forward rudder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Oooh... A forward rudder! Makes sense for tight turns that are going to be needed if I understand the tactic correctly: to close in on a target and then launch the torpedo. To not get caught in the detonation it would have to be very maneuverable. Also interesting how low the superstructures are and how close to the waterline to reduce the profile and run under enemy cannon fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 It is the use of a heat ray against armour that I have to question. Armour is just not that easy to melt, and a small contraption such as a Martian tripod, unless carrying a fusion reactor, would have some difficulty developing enough energy to melt armour so quickly. Also the ironclads that were standing off would surely have been able to perform some good execution with their main batteries. Yes, I know this is a science fiction book from 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootER5 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 In the book she was described as a Torpedo Ram, which would be akin to a destroyer I suppose. Its only in adaptions its become a vessel like a Dreadnought. I dont believe its even in the current BBC adaption. It's not front and center, but skip to 1:14 here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Ok, so they clearly modified it again from the book (I wish they wouldnt think they were improving on things) but the RN cleans up, so im not complaining. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Ive read the comic book and seen the early movie but never read the novel. Drachs reading made me realize I need to correct that. Definitely do, it's part of my book library as well as my ebook library. The opening paragraph is arguably the best ever written in fiction. Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up every time I read it. No one would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man’s and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter. It is possible that the infusoria under the microscope do the same. No one gave a thought to the older worlds of space as sources of human danger, or thought of them only to dismiss the idea of life upon them as impossible or improbable. It is curious to recall some of the mental habits of those departed days. At most terrestrial men fancied there might be other men upon Mars, perhaps inferior to themselves and ready to welcome a missionary enterprise. Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us. And early in the twentieth century came the great disillusionment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) Yes, indeed. Written prose lost something wonderful and majestic over the last. century Edited December 7, 2019 by shep854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a77 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 It is the use of a heat ray against armour that I have to question. Armour is just not that easy to melt, and a small contraption such as a Martian tripod, unless carrying a fusion reactor, would have some difficulty developing enough energy to melt armour so quickly. Also the ironclads that were standing off would surely have been able to perform some good execution with their main batteries. Yes, I know this is a science fiction book from 1900.Do not start to ask hard question, then you run into a loot of problem, what super-alloy allow the Martian fighting-machine to be so light that the ground pressure is on acceptable level, and so strong that it cant be reduced by heavy/siege artillery, that fire from a defilade postion, so the battery is out of line of sight from the fighting-machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 It is the use of a heat ray against armour that I have to question. Armour is just not that easy to melt, and a small contraption such as a Martian tripod, unless carrying a fusion reactor, would have some difficulty developing enough energy to melt armour so quickly. Also the ironclads that were standing off would surely have been able to perform some good execution with their main batteries. Yes, I know this is a science fiction book from 1900.Do not start to ask hard question, then you run into a loot of problem, what super-alloy allow the Martian fighting-machine to be so light that the ground pressure is on acceptable level, and so strong that it cant be reduced by heavy/siege artillery, that fire from a defilade postion, so the battery is out of line of sight from the fighting-machine. You do not just have a problem of strength but of balance. Even a 3" 12pdr shell hitting a tall tripod device is going to give it a hell of a whack and a possibility of knocking it over. It could of course get up again. Your mention of heavy/siege artillery can actually be answered in practical terms. Less than two decades after the novel tanks were roaming the battlefield a lot slower than the fictional tripods. Tanks had little to fear from heavy and siege artillery as targeting a moving object, even one at a walking pace, using such artillery in defilade position would not be easy, and still isn't. The only real option would be for the military to try to bring artillery to bear against any landing crater before the aliens had a chance to dig themselves out. Even so, any object able to be shot from a gun at escape velocity from one planet with a hard landing at the other end is going to have to be tough by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJ Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 It is the use of a heat ray against armour that I have to question. Armour is just not that easy to melt, and a small contraption such as a Martian tripod, unless carrying a fusion reactor, would have some difficulty developing enough energy to melt armour so quickly. Also the ironclads that were standing off would surely have been able to perform some good execution with their main batteries. Yes, I know this is a science fiction book from 1900. Do not start to ask hard question, then you run into a loot of problem, what super-alloy allow the Martian fighting-machine to be so light that the ground pressure is on acceptable level, and so strong that it cant be reduced by heavy/siege artillery, that fire from a defilade postion, so the battery is out of line of sight from the fighting-machine.Carbon nano tubes. The stuff is apparently the candidate material for space elevator cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 It is the use of a heat ray against armour that I have to question. Armour is just not that easy to melt, and a small contraption such as a Martian tripod, unless carrying a fusion reactor, would have some difficulty developing enough energy to melt armour so quickly. Also the ironclads that were standing off would surely have been able to perform some good execution with their main batteries. Yes, I know this is a science fiction book from 1900.Do not start to ask hard question, then you run into a loot of problem, what super-alloy allow the Martian fighting-machine to be so light that the ground pressure is on acceptable level, and so strong that it cant be reduced by heavy/siege artillery, that fire from a defilade postion, so the battery is out of line of sight from the fighting-machine.Carbon nano tubes. The stuff is apparently the candidate material for space elevator cables. Flammability of nano tubes? There are some indications they they will burn, perhaps an HE explosion on their surface may cause problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJ Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Do not start to ask hard question, then you run into a loot of problem, what super-alloy allow the Martian fighting-machine to be so light that the ground pressure is on acceptable level, and so strong that it cant be reduced by heavy/siege artillery, that fire from a defilade postion, so the battery is out of line of sight from the fighting-machine.Carbon nano tubes. The stuff is apparently the candidate material for space elevator cables.Flammability of nano tubes? There are some indications they they will burn, perhaps an HE explosion on their surface may cause problems?Who could recommend their use for space elevator if they're flammable? Just more "super special material can change the world" reporting I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 In the artillery duel, field artillery destroys one tripod but is then destroyed. In the Thunderchild scene, the ships destroy one tripod with guns and another by ramming. Thunderchild is, as noted destroyed by the heat ray after being unaffected by the black smoke/ poison gas. One could argue that there was plenty of flammable stuff above decks on a 19th century ship, and it's likely that the bridge would be relatively unprotected from a heat ray that could destroy buildings. With everyone topside vaporised, a ship would be useless, even it's proud heart hadn't been literally melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anixtu Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 it's likely that the bridge would be relatively unprotected from a heat ray that could destroy buildings.The armoured conning tower would be more resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikel2 Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Do we have a RHA figure of the conning tower vs Martian heat ray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Do we have a RHA figure of the conning tower vs Martian heat ray? Don't forget distance and angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Relevant... http://kansascitykitcompany.com/explorations-and-speculation/2015/4/16/building-the-hms-thunderchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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