How the Nazi Jews from burning Kiev plan to do a Golan Heights style of genocide, or something, I lost track of this shit

[Yama]

4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Can you cut the antisemitic shit out please? We dont need it on this site.

Dumb rhetoric about gas chambers aside, at this point it is impossible to resolve West Bank conflict without ethnic cleansing, and same is increasingly true for Ukraine: especially if and when Putin announces annexation of occupied regions.

[Perun]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

So you talk about Jews setting up Gas chambers, and Im being the aggressor?

Cut it out. If you dont, the moderator im sure will.

Again, stop with your fantasies

[Perun]

1 hour ago, Markus Becker said:

Seconded! Textbook antisemitism of the most primitive type. 

Please explain to me what is antisemitic about my post

[Huba]

1 hour ago, TrustMe said:

Let's just get to the root of the matter. The Russians and Poles/ Balts/ Ukrainians hate each other. They've been killing each other for hundreds of years. There never going to get along.

FIFY, now this is a more reasonable description of Russians and all their direct western neighbors. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Huba

[Perun]

1 hour ago, Soren Ras said:

Saying "Today Arabs live in ghettos and is only question of time when Israelis will try to resolve Palestinian question by gas chambers" [emphasis mine],   is rather more than "criticizing Israeli excesses".

In this case, Stuart is entirely correct in pointing out the garbage statement made.

No, both you and Stu are wrong. Stop with propaganda cliche and look at the facts on the ground.

[TrustMe]

1 hour ago, Huba said:

FIFY, now this is a more reasonable description of Russians and all their direct western neighbors. 

Nice of you to subvert my post.

[Josh]

3 hours ago, sunday said:

If criticizing the English role in the Bengal famine in WWII is not Anglophobia, nor criticizing the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis is Germanophobia, then criticizing the Israeli excesses against Palestinians should not be Antisemitism, IMHO.

There's a huge gulf between criticism of current Israeli policy and explicitly stating that they would set up "gas chambers" for Palestinians.

[Perun]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

There's a huge gulf between criticism of current Israeli policy and explicitly stating that they would set up "gas chambers" for Palestinians.

Nor did the nazis start with genocide from the first day. They started with segregation, then they started with ghettos, then they ...

There is too much repeated history and too many similarities to be ignored. If you don't like it, just look at the facts on the ground.

[Colin]

7 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Actually, that's not true, Israel has been the aggressor multiple times (and this was acknowledged by Moshe Dayan himself) before and after 1948. As for Arab goals, saying that their ultimate goal was the annihilation of the Jews is akin to believing all Russian propaganda, it wasn't, and they didn't even have a common goal, much less a concerted effort.

After 2 tries (1948, 1956) Israel realised that taking the ground and then giving it back was kind of pointless and in 1967 those chickens came home to roost for the Arabs, but not all Arabs lost equally.

For Egypt it was an existential threat as the canal was closed and the country was going down the drain, Sadat tried to negotiate out of it, but Golda Meir would have none of it and the only way to shake the Israelis was through a limited war, whose only aim was to cross the canal and hold out until the UN ceasefire.

Jordan's King was glad to get rid of the troublesome Palestinians, who didn't acknowledge him as leader and to let the great Jordan dream of his grandfather wither away if he could have a reasonable relationship with Israel and the support of the US/UK to stay in the throne (as he could see what had gone on in Iraq)

Syria lost a few miles of not very good farmland of no consequence to its existance, but being a chaotic failed state, failed to reach an agreement with Israel.

The Palestinian refugees proceeded to destabilize all the countries that received them, first Jordan, then Lebanon, and their aim of returning to Palestine was replaced with setting up their own states within the host state.

This conflict can't be simplified as the Arabs wanted all Jews death and therfore the Jews are justified as doing whatever they want, not even the Israelis see it that way.

I will give that Egypt and Jordan had limited goals in 1948. But the majority of the Arabs wanted the Jews gone. For the Jews it was a do or die proposition and they felt there was no real safe haven for them elsewhere, thanks to the lesson from Europe in WWII. Islamist's are willing to have subservient races toiling underfoot, but not as equals. Once a group wants to be equal they must be crushed.

[Stuart Galbraith]

2 hours ago, Perun said:

Nor did the nazis start with genocide from the first day. They started with segregation, then they started with ghettos, then they ...

There is too much repeated history and too many similarities to be ignored. If you don't like it, just look at the facts on the ground.

Do you not understand that when you put the word 'Israelis', 'Ghettos' and 'Gas Chambers' in the same sentence, its tends to get people upset? That is in fact offensive to many people, whether they are Jewish or not?

I can accept you dont mean offense. I can even accept that you didnt intend to be offense. But can you possibly accept that you did in fact cause some offense and never do it again?

This site has enough issues as it is, but I really could do without my posting history being intimately associated with antisemitic shit like that, which whether you accept it or not, by common consensus it was.

For the record, Ive got many problems with how the Israelis have handled the Palestinian question. Ill even say it shows occasional brutality, certainly excessive stupidity. But its nothing compared to what the Nazi's did to the Jews, and you are nowhere in order in using such loaded words making the comparison.

[Colin]

LOL moderator, love the title!!

[rmgill]

13 hours ago, crazyinsane105 said:

But you understand the point I’m trying to make, right? On one hand, the West is perfectly fine with Israel occupying land that isn’t rightfully theirs (and even if Europe doesn’t view Golan Heights as the land of Israel, they aren’t going to do much to sanction Israel to make them return it). But when it comes to Russia occupying Crimea and now other parts of Ukraine…it’s an issue.

IMO, it’s a pretty glaring double standard. 

*Looks at a map of the baltic region.* Where is Prussia exactly? Kaliningrad was known as Königsberg was it not? For how many years? Does Russia exactly have a leg to stand on here? No, they don't. Germany Invaded Russia, so....that's where we're at. 

What about parts of Finland. Did Finland invade Russia? No. Finland has a claim on lands per your point then. 

Israel didn't invade. It held onto territory it needed to hang onto to prevent such an attack again. Russia invaded pure and simple. Sorta like Königsberg and surrounding environs. By Rights that should go to Poland or to Germany. When you agree to this point then we can have an honest conversation. 

For the geographically ignorant..

Edited September 29, 2022 by rmgill

[FALightFighter]

3 hours ago, rmgill said:

*Looks at a map of the baltic region.* Where is Prussia exactly? Kaliningrad was known as Königsberg was it not? For how many years? Does Russia exactly have a leg to stand on here? No, they don't. Germany Invaded Russia, so....that's where we're at. 

What about parts of Finland. Did Finland invade Russia? No. Finland has a claim on lands per your point then. 

Israel didn't invade. It held onto territory it needed to hang onto to prevent such an attack again. Russia invaded pure and simple. Sorta like Königsberg and surrounding environs. By Rights that should go to Poland or to Germany. When you agree to this point then we can have an honest conversation. 

For the geographically ignorant..

Actually, Germany did invade the USSR in June, 1941. And Finland followed suit, in response to the Soviet invasion of 1939, which is why it is called The Continuation War from 1941-44.

I think that the ultimate issue is that we want to treat borders (at least now) as sacrosanct, and ignore the centuries of bloodshed it took to finally settle the western European boundaries. Outside of western Europe, most of the borders only date from post-WWI. I'm not sure why we shouldn't try to figure those out- many of them were drawn by western politicians with little idea of the places they were affecting.

[Colin]

2 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

Actually, Germany did invade the USSR in June, 1941. And Finland followed suit, in response to the Soviet invasion of 1939, which is why it is called The Continuation War from 1941-44.

I think that the ultimate issue is that we want to treat borders (at least now) as sacrosanct, and ignore the centuries of bloodshed it took to finally settle the western European boundaries. Outside of western Europe, most of the borders only date from post-WWI. I'm not sure why we shouldn't try to figure those out- many of them were drawn by western politicians with little idea of the places they were affecting.

Yes it's funny listening to the Iraqis talk about their border, which the British drew. Except for the Iran-Iraq border that was resolved in the 1600's between the Persian and Ottoman Empire, with help from the English King of the time.

[Perun]

8 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Do you not understand that when you put the word 'Israelis', 'Ghettos' and 'Gas Chambers' in the same sentence, its tends to get people upset? That is in fact offensive to many people, whether they are Jewish or not?

I can accept you dont mean offense. I can even accept that you didnt intend to be offense. But can you possibly accept that you did in fact cause some offense and never do it again?

This site has enough issues as it is, but I really could do without my posting history being intimately associated with antisemitic shit like that, which whether you accept it or not, by common consensus it was.

For the record, Ive got many problems with how the Israelis have handled the Palestinian question. Ill even say it shows occasional brutality, certainly excessive stupidity. But its nothing compared to what the Nazi's did to the Jews, and you are nowhere in order in using such loaded words making the comparison.

You might like it or not, but as I said, just look for the real facts on the ground. And those "stupidity" as you call them and brutality are not occasional, they are part of everyday life. You talk about democracy but you are trying to forbid a critique which is based on truth.

[Colin]

2 minutes ago, Perun said:

You might like it or not, but as I said, just look for the real facts on the ground. And those "stupidity" as you call them and brutality are not occasional, they are part of everyday life. You talk about democracy but you are trying to forbid a critique which is based on truth.

The biggest problem for the Palestinians are other Palestinians, in particular Hamas. They don't like everyday governance, because there are no martyrs involved doing stuff like building sewage lines and running day to day government. The PLA is a bit better, but busy being corrupt. 

The big overarching issue is that you have two groups that can't live together trying to occupy the same house. It's not going to work, someone is going to lose and the other win. I picked Israel, sorry if you don't like it. The Arab world could do the Palestinians a favour by dropping the "right of return" offering full citizenship to them (funny how their Arab brothers won't give them citizenship but the West does) Assad would be smart to encourage them to come and settle in the areas cleansed of anti-regime supporters in exchange for loyalty and military service. 

[rmgill]

3 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

Actually, Germany did invade the USSR in June, 1941. And Finland followed suit, in response to the Soviet invasion of 1939, which is why it is called The Continuation War from 1941-44.

 

Kind of my point. Germany lost land after a war of aggression. The Arab league did too. 
 

Ukraine did NOT invade Russia. 

3 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

I think that the ultimate issue is that we want to treat borders (at least now) as sacrosanct, and ignore the centuries of bloodshed it took to finally settle the western European boundaries.

Arguably this is all still ongoing. There are separatists in Iberia for example. There have been in Ireland. 
 

We have mostly just had a pause in the border shifting for the most part since WWII. 
 

 

3 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

Outside of western Europe, most of the borders only date from post-WWI. I'm not sure why we shouldn't try to figure those out- many of them were drawn by western politicians with little idea of the places they were affecting.

Considering the patchwork of ethnicities and nationalities among the old parts of the HRE and the AHE, those national divisions are somewhat arbitrary no matter where you out them. Even post WWI I get the impression that those polish vs czech vs german vs what ever else distinctions were rather stirred. Only WWII and after made them more segregated. 

[rmgill]

30 minutes ago, Perun said:

You might like it or not, but as I said, just look for the real facts on the ground. And those "stupidity" as you call them and brutality are not occasional, they are part of everyday life. You talk about democracy but you are trying to forbid a critique which is based on truth.

When you can have the construction of a Jewish place of worship that is protected by the PA and not immediately burned down you will have some equivalence. Until then your position is best used to fertilize farms. 

[Perun]

19 minutes ago, rmgill said:

When you can have the construction of a Jewish place of worship that is protected by the PA and not immediately burned down you will have some equivalence. Until then your position is best used to fertilize farms. 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/f835bb5fc51943809f4930bab7604a4f_6.jpg

...

[lucklucky]

You continue with your  Palestinian dictatorship and supremacist propaganda. If Palestinians have water is due to Israel no one else.

If Palestinians 74 years have more life expectancy than Egypt 72 years is due to Israel,  but demonstrating your nauseating propaganda you call that genocide.

[rmgill]

Ok. What construction projects is the PA running? Aside from bunkers under hospitals? 

[Perun]

2 hours ago, lucklucky said:

You continue with your  Palestinian dictatorship and supremacist propaganda. If Palestinians have water is due to Israel no one else.

If Palestinians 74 years have more life expectancy than Egypt 72 years is due to Israel,  but demonstrating your nauseating propaganda you call that genocide.

Where did you find your "supremacist propaganda" in my writings? It seems to me that few of you guys are well indoctrinted and that for you the Truth is the enemy.

[Perun]

Israel’s 55-year occupation of Palestinian Territory is apartheid – UN human rights expert

...

“There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since 1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system that privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.

“Living in the same geographic space, but separated by walls, checkpoints, roads and an entrenched military presence, are more than three million Palestinians, who are without rights, living under an oppressive rule of institutional discrimination and without a path to a genuine Palestinian state that the world has long promised is their right.

“Another two million Palestinians live in Gaza, described regularly as an ‘open-air prison’, without adequate access to power, water or health, with a collapsing economy and with no ability to freely travel to the rest of Palestine or the outside world.”

The Special Rapporteur said that a political regime which so intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and social rights to one group over another within the same geographic unit on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity satisfies the international legal definition of apartheid.

...

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights

[BansheeOne]

Still waiting to see those Israeli plans for gas chambers. Though I'm not holding my breath.

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Perun said:

Where did you find your "supremacist propaganda" in my writings? It seems to me that few of you guys are well indoctrinted and that for you the Truth is the enemy.

Given the stated objective of both Hamas and Fatah is the end of the Jewish state....it's rather connected.