Because Trump 2.0

[Stuart Galbraith]

I can't comment on France, but there is an for repeated allegation about it being true in Birmingham. Unfortunately, nobody seems to know where it is, sooooo....

[Jeff]

 

 

12) An economy every other nation on the planet is envious of after being told he'd need a magic wand to do it.

 

And short of a magic wand, he'd tank the economy.

 

 

I chuckle when I think of how much money liberal portfolios lost by losing out on the Trump economy because they expected things to tank and sold into cash.

[seahawk]

 

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, England, just surrender. Islam is allowed to do whatever it wants to do, from grooming gangs, to no go zones to instituting Shaira law.

 

 

Islam was invited in by the left, to destroy Christian culture.

[lastdingo]

 

 

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, England, just surrender. Islam is allowed to do whatever it wants to do, from grooming gangs, to no go zones to instituting Shaira law.

 

 

Islam was invited in by the left, to destroy Christian culture.

 

Now there we have another LIAR.

[Jeff]

Turnout by incumbent presidents in the NH primary.

 

President Donald Trump in 2020: 110,717
President Barack Obama in 2012: 49,080
President George W. Bush in 2004: 52,962
President Bill Clinton in 1996: 76,797

[lastdingo]

So I quote an internet page, and post up what I think is correct information. Them someone comes back and says no, that is completely wrong, they lied about that. Ive had that happen a few times. Does that make me a liar, or just poorly informed?

I wouldn't call you a liar if it's some technical or historical small thing. I would call you a liar if you repeat a lie that's been around for years, used to disparage millions to hundreds of millions of people, disrupt the peace in societies, or a lie that's being used to illegitimately smear legitimate political opinions or proposals.

Adults are responsible for what they say and write, so they should take responsibility for it - and nobody should relieve them of this responsibility.

If you think that the Welsh are intent to run amok in England and mass murder Englishmen, rape English women and burn down English landmarks, then you better have REALLY REALLY good evidence for that. A nebulous hatred for the Welsh doesn't qualify as such, nor does watching media known for a zealous hatred for the Welsh.

And if you truly believe that's why some Welsh are in England for, then you are much worse than just a liar and should be glad if I only call you out for lying.

 

Yes, its that simple. Anyone that re-posts falsehoods believing them to be true, is not a liar.

Then they shall come back, tell us that they truly believe the bullshit that they wrote and I will call them the appropriate words.

I don't think you would rate those words as more polite than "liar", though. I don't run around and call people liars for quoting from vehicle specifications, after all.

 

I think the real problem here is that you, Stuart, have become accustomed to the incessant lying, hatemongering and fearmongering by right wing radicals and think of it as normal.

Meanwhile, you are not accustomed to people calling such behaviour out.

You should check the calibration of your moral compass.

[DKTanker]

Turnout by incumbent presidents in the NH primary.

 

President Donald Trump in 2020: 110,717

President Barack Obama in 2012: 49,080

President George W. Bush in 2004: 52,962

President Bill Clinton in 1996: 76,797

With 97% reporting, Trump now has over 128,000 votes. Could have been a bit higher but former MA governor Bill Weld received 13,000 votes.

[Ssnake]

 

Police officer or not, the statement that "Europe has not been attacked by Muslims" is factually incorrect, and Murph knows it. How else can you characterize it, other than "a lie"? Let's get that question sorted before we move on to his slur that we're all surrender monkeys.

Being incorrect and factually wrong is not that same as someone being a liar.

 

Yes, it is, if you're doing it on purpose to achieve an effect. Like Murph did, in this case.

 

And don't get me started that his whole statement was a non sequitur. (Europe surrenders despite not being attacked? Because it's not being attacked? FFS, none of that makes any sense.)

[MiloMorai]

 

 

Police officer or not, the statement that "Europe has not been attacked by Muslims" is factually incorrect, and Murph knows it. How else can you characterize it, other than "a lie"? Let's get that question sorted before we move on to his slur that we're all surrender monkeys.

Being incorrect and factually wrong is not that same as someone being a liar.

 

Yes, it is, if you're doing it on purpose to achieve an effect. Like Murph did, in this case.

 

And don't get me started that his whole statement was a non sequitur. (Europe surrenders despite not being attacked? Because it's not being attacked? FFS, none of that makes any sense.)

 

Like trump does consistently.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

Police officer or not, the statement that "Europe has not been attacked by Muslims" is factually incorrect, and Murph knows it. How else can you characterize it, other than "a lie"? Let's get that question sorted before we move on to his slur that we're all surrender monkeys.

 

Being incorrect and factually wrong is not that same as someone being a liar.

Yes, it is, if you're doing it on purpose to achieve an effect. Like Murph did, in this case.

 

And don't get me started that his whole statement was a non sequitur. (Europe surrenders despite not being attacked? Because it's not being attacked? FFS, none of that makes any sense.)

 

As I said before, you have to demonstrate he knows it's factually incorrect and for that matter, inconsistent. It's a sad truth that supporters of Trump repeat his arguments as a mantra, without deep consideration. Their arguments about NATO are wholly inconsistent also. Remember how I got attacked when I pointed out how many NATO squadrons for whacked in Afghanistan? I didn't call them liars, I called them factually wrong, and so they are.

 

I vowed the other day I would post in the ffz again, and this is why. It's increasingly about attacking people than their arguements. Look, LD mocks my moral compass by a request for more civility. What a joke. If we want people to debate, and not poke off like Josh did, this is not the way.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

Stuart, I think where your error lies is in using a single color of text. If you change the colors of the text it makes your arguments more complete. (or something like that)

 

I'm not sure that TankNet is any less civil than it used to be but if TankNet is less civil it is by a matter of degree compared to the rest of the internet. Excepting Last Dingo's posts most of TankNet doesn't resemble Reddit.

[lastdingo]

Well, Stuart, I suppose you know very well that you cannot support your choice of the word "mocks".

[Rick]

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

I ask the following of our European members because I truly do not know. Is there a concern in Europe of Muslims causing a:

1. A disproportionate increase in crime?

2. A increase cost in government services with said Muslims "not paying their fair share?"

3. An attempt of a political party trying to enroll said Muslims into their party to increase said party's political power via having these Muslims vote for said political party?

Thank you.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Stuart, I think where your error lies is in using a single color of text. If you change the colors of the text it makes your arguments more complete. (or something like that)

 

I'm not sure that TankNet is any less civil than it used to be but if TankNet is less civil it is by a matter of degree compared to the rest of the internet. Excepting Last Dingo's posts most of TankNet doesn't resemble Reddit.

No, it's changed. Ffz was always robust, but it's got decidedly less civil and more negative for several years. I know I'm not the only person that thinks so. We used to respect each other when disagreeing before. And now increasingly, we dont.

[Rick]

 

 

Police officer or not, the statement that "Europe has not been attacked by Muslims" is factually incorrect, and Murph knows it. How else can you characterize it, other than "a lie"? Let's get that question sorted before we move on to his slur that we're all surrender monkeys.

Being incorrect and factually wrong is not that same as someone being a liar. Im sure im incorrect many times and im happy for it to be pointed out, but Id be genuinely pissed to be labelled a liar.

 

Really, we have ALL got to start moving beyond this divisive language. It achieves nothing. Its the kind of divisiveness Trump loves, and we dont need to do it here to make our point known.

 

I don't call people liars for an occasional incorrect statement.

 

Those whom I call out deserve it.

 

Murph, JWS, Rick et al behave as if everything is fair game to them. True or not - as long as an idea means they can talk shit about people whom they hate or disrespect., they think it's alright. They do not appear to care about true or false any more. If it's dirt, throw it at the enemy. Both have been proven wrong many times and I'm pretty sure they have never admitted to have made a mistake or apologised, not even when the false statement was derogatory to people, sometimes many millions of them.

And they don't care about their lies being proven false - they just pile up one lie on another, on and on and on.

 

Their disrespect for truth means they deserves to be called out as the liars they are.

 

You cannot have a sensible discussion on issues if the liars run rampant with lies, but those who call out their lying get criticised for being impolite. The act of lying is impolite and the act of pointing out lying and liars is necessary hygiene.

 

Comrade, that is DOG FACED PONY SOLDIER (in my case more accurately Sailor) LIAR to you!

[lastdingo]

Too bad you can't prove it while I have no difficulty proving you a liar.

Bring up one quote (with thread and page for convenience) where I called you a liar, and I will conclusively prove that you lied there, Mr. Demonrat.

 

All you got from me was well-deserved.

Edited February 12, 2020 by lastdingo

[BansheeOne]

I ask the following of our European members because I truly do not know. Is there a concern in Europe of Muslims causing a:

1. A disproportionate increase in crime?

2. A increase cost in government services with said Muslims "not paying their fair share?"

3. An attempt of a political party trying to enroll said Muslims into their party to increase said party's political power via having these Muslims vote for said political party?

Thank you.

Of course there are those who have these concerns. Others are concerned that climate change will kill us all. People will follow the doomsday cult of their choice.

Edited February 12, 2020 by BansheeOne

[lastdingo]

 

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

I ask the following of our European members because I truly do not know. Is there a concern in Europe of Muslims causing a:

1. A disproportionate increase in crime?

2. A increase cost in government services with said Muslims "not paying their fair share?"

3. An attempt of a political party trying to enroll said Muslims into their party to increase said party's political power via having these Muslims vote for said political party?

Thank you.

 

Germany:

 

crime statistics https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformationen/StatistikenLagebilder/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/pks_node.html

total crime quantity

murders

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2229/umfrage/mordopfer-in-deutschland-entwicklung-seit-1987/

other homicides

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/550284/umfrage/polizeilich-erfasste-faelle-von-totschlag-und-toetung-auf-verlangen-in-deutschland/

Foreigners are known to inflate the crime stats quite a bit, but most of the raw figures is about foreigner-specific violations that a German citizen cannot commit by law (violating requirements that only foreigners face and such).

 

2) Foreigners have a hard time getting a well-paid job in Germany since many professions will not be recognised immediately. Even a world-famous neurosurgeon from Syria would need a year or so of internship to be recognised as an ordinary medical doctor AFAIK. It's fairly obvious that the refugees cost a lot in social workers, language courses, basis sustainment.

Other first generation foreigners are being perceived overwhelmingly low income category labour force, with all the issues that come with this.

 

3) "Muslims" are not really a category in Germany. There are Turks, Kurds, Syrians etc etc etc - and those groups are divided into German citizens, people with permit to settle and work here permanently, people with limited permit to stay and people who are supposed to leave, but cannot be deported (often because their country of origin doesn't cooperate).

 

The greens and the far left are considered the typical parties for those, but 'Muslims' are not perceivable as engaged much in German politics, nor as a major voting bloc. There are very few prominent politicians of Muslim country descent (Özdemir, a former federal green party co-chair known for being very much at odds for Erdogan, and Chebli, an attention-grabbing state-level undersecretary from the social democrats come to my mind right away). (Özdemir was born in Germany, but has Turkish ancestors.)

 

 

 

Overall, there's a widespread perception that federal and state level policies regarding foreigners are far from perfect and the integration of foreigners is far from perfect. Improvements are desired, but no party seems to garner majority confidence that it knows how to deliver substantial improvements.

At the same time, only a loud yet small minority (well less than 20% on federal level if one uses election results as proxy indicator) is thinking anything resembling the bollocks that the far right asserts.

 

All the 'rape and murder' bollocks is laughable. We would notice if that was an appropriate description for over a million refugees and a couple million foreign-born people in Germany.

Most of the foreigners I met were rather depressed that the German society doesn't give them a fair chance. Then again, so do Germans in their income group. The 'prosperity for everyone' society has been eroding in the West since 1973 and the East has never achieved it. That's a fairly common problem in the Western world. Somehow many job categories simply don't grow in income as much as others, and even academically educated people often begin careers with terrible entrance wages. Maybe the demographic change-induced labour shortages will change that. Current (and since the 60's common) politician behaviour regarding labour shortage is to see it as a problem for businesses rather than as a boon for workers, though. Another word for 'labour shortage' is 'full employment' !

I'm on record decrying this and also decrying that immigration is considered as a 'solution' to the labour shortage 'problem'. That doesn't turn the foreigners into invading devious beings, though.

Edited February 12, 2020 by lastdingo

[Martin M]

people aren´t concerned because they are not concerned with anything that will cause them problems. If they admitted something could be wrong they would have to act. Following/adherring to 20:00 Tv news and print means you needn´t do anything. And that is the best course.

[Rick]

 

 

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, England, just surrender. Islam is allowed to do whatever it wants to do, from grooming gangs, to no go zones to instituting Shaira law.

 

 

Islam was invited in by the left, to destroy Christian culture.

 

True statement. Siraj Wahhaj agrees with you. So does Isma'il Al-Faruqi, Zaid Shakir and Ahmad Nawfal. Shamin Siddiqi wrote a book on how to do it in his 1989 "Methodology of Dawah Ilallah in Amercian Perspective. Elijah Muhammad and El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz's associates would agree with Seahawk.

David Horowitz -- former leftist -- has written about the left and Islam, and so has Daniel Pipes.

[Martin M]

Correction:

to destroy the capitalist state, and as second feature to aggrevate the conseravtives and right wing - as long as there was such.

[Rick]

 

I ask the following of our European members because I truly do not know. Is there a concern in Europe of Muslims causing a:

1. A disproportionate increase in crime?

2. A increase cost in government services with said Muslims "not paying their fair share?"

3. An attempt of a political party trying to enroll said Muslims into their party to increase said party's political power via having these Muslims vote for said political party?

Thank you.

Of course there are those who have these concerns. Others are concerned that climate change will kill us all. People will follow the doomsday cult of their choice.

 

Then one needs -- I presume -- to try to see if Europe is worried about if the culture of Islam "interferes" with "liberal" European culture.

[Rick]

 

I ask the following of our European members because I truly do not know. Is there a concern in Europe of Muslims causing a:

1. A disproportionate increase in crime?

2. A increase cost in government services with said Muslims "not paying their fair share?"

3. An attempt of a political party trying to enroll said Muslims into their party to increase said party's political power via having these Muslims vote for said political party?

Thank you.

Of course there are those who have these concerns. Others are concerned that climate change will kill us all. People will follow the doomsday cult of their choice.

 

Then one needs -- I presume -- to try to see if Europe is worried about if the culture of Islam "interferes" with "liberal" European culture.

[lastdingo]

 

 

 

 

Europe has not been attacked by Muslims

 

Define "not attacked" please. This is pure, unadulterated BS, and you know it.

 

Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, England, just surrender. Islam is allowed to do whatever it wants to do, from grooming gangs, to no go zones to instituting Shaira law.

 

 

Islam was invited in by the left, to destroy Christian culture.

 

True statement. Siraj Wahhaj agrees with you. So does Isma'il Al-Faruqi, Zaid Shakir and Ahmad Nawfal. Shamin Siddiqi wrote a book on how to do it in his 1989 "Methodology of Dawah Ilallah in Amercian Perspective. Elijah Muhammad and El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz's associates would agree with Seahawk.

David Horowitz -- former leftist -- has written about the left and Islam, and so has Daniel Pipes.

 

This time I fully trust that you're simply not functional enough to notice that you're writing bollocks and will explain it:

 

It doesn't matter to the statement whether some Muslim dudes wrote something. That was not the claim.

The claim made can only be supported if there's evidence that "the left" (say, leading politicians) actively INVITED Muslims, and also stating that the purpose of this invitation was to destroy Christianity.

 

A non-existence cannot be proved, so the burden of proof is on those who make such a claim.

For the time being, the claim is such an OBVIOUS BULLSHIT that I call it a lie.

There's no immunity zone for liars that make bullshit up or repeat made-up bullshit. They're liars if they can't back their outrageous bullshit up.

[lastdingo]

people aren´t concerned because they are not concerned with anything that will cause them problems. If they admitted something could be wrong they would have to act. Following/adherring to 20:00 Tv news and print means you needn´t do anything. And that is the best course.

That's actually a very good description of the German conservatives.

They are true conservatives; they don't want change, certainly no experiments. They are so averse to substantial reform that they prefer to deny a problem's existence. To acknowledge the existence of a problem means to put yourself under pressure to deliver a solution, after all. And they sure don't want to solve problems by reform. They didn't solve any major problems in three decades despite being almost all the time dominant in federal policy.

Merkel did a few u-turns when problem pressure became too big to ignore (mostly deactivating conscription and a lip-service turn away from nuclear and coal power IIRC).