Rich Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The strength return of the USARMy ground and service was about 6 million and 2.3 million in the AAF in 1945 for the sake of argument. But we'll leave the AAF out of it. Um, no, and why? As of 31 March 1945 AGF was 2.502-million, ASF was 1.097-million, AAF was 1.945-million, and other was 1.422-million. Do you have the same breakdown for the Soviet forces so that you can do a comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Strictly amateur musing on my part, but how many atomic bombs did the U.S. have in late 1945?Just one in real life as they shut down the production line. They expected to produce them at a rate of three per month if they had not shut it down with seven devices expected to be available by 1 November 1945 for the invasion of Japan.I presume there was an airfield that a B29 could reach Moscow fromThe distance from England to Moscow is about the same from Tinian to Japan about 1550 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 IIRC, Soviets started to have serious manpower shortages late in WW II and quality of replacements was often "abysmal" (at least by some anecdotal evidence). USA could probably downsize USN quite a lot and use that manpower as replacements, if absolutely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The Soviets would be smothered by US artillery. It would be so unfunny with VT. They never faced the kind of arty the US/UK had. It would look like Wonju. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfngun Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Um, no, and why? As of 31 March 1945 AGF was 2.502-million, ASF was 1.097-million, AAF was 1.945-million, and other was 1.422-million. I always thought the non-AAF part of the USArmy reached about 5.9 million. In the initial post I said to not count their respective Air Forces.http://www.history.army.mil/books/agf/AGF004/Table1.htmhttp://www.history.army.mil/books/agf/AGF003/ch05.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/agf/AGF003/ch04.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Strictly amateur musing on my part, but how many atomic bombs did the U.S. have in late 1945? Just one in real life as they shut down the production line. They expected to produce them at a rate of three per month if they had not shut it down with seven devices expected to be available by 1 November 1945 for the invasion of Japan. I presume there was an airfield that a B29 could reach Moscow from The distance from England to Moscow is about the same from Tinian to Japan about 1550 miles. Didn't know about the A-bomb stuff thanks but the U.S. dropped two A-bombs. Did they just make two, then shut down the production line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 IIRC, Soviets started to have serious manpower shortages late in WW II and quality of replacements was often "abysmal" (at least by some anecdotal evidence). USA could probably downsize USN quite a lot and use that manpower as replacements, if absolutely necessary. Was thinking the same thing about the U.S.N. Didn't know about the serious Soviet manpower shortage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tanker Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Strictly amateur musing on my part, but how many atomic bombs did the U.S. have in late 1945? Just one in real life as they shut down the production line. They expected to produce them at a rate of three per month if they had not shut it down with seven devices expected to be available by 1 November 1945 for the invasion of Japan. I presume there was an airfield that a B29 could reach Moscow from The distance from England to Moscow is about the same from Tinian to Japan about 1550 miles. Didn't know about the A-bomb stuff thanks but the U.S. dropped two A-bombs. Did they just make two, then shut down the production line? I understand they had a third near ready but it would be months (1946) before any more would be ready. In May of '45 the U.S. army had at least 12-14 divs. still actively engaging the Japs in the P.I.s and Okinawa .I believe the army had 21 divs. in the Pacific and about 46 in the ETO and only one left in the states to deploy overseas. As to the Russians they did have manpower shortages but that army that hit the Japs in Manchuria in August was of good quality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) In 1945, Soviets were often relying to replacements from areas that had been occupied by Germans for 4 years. As result of this, replacement troops were often suffering from malnutrition etc. and thus were physically in bad condition. Of course, majority of troops were experienced and battle-hardened, but replacing casualties was getting more difficult. Edited June 2, 2012 by Sardaukar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thoughts on how the two Air Forces would do? My gut feeling is the U.S.A.A.F. without much effort at high and much, but successfull effort down low. Soviet pilots/planes vs U.S. Navy of the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Didn't know about the A-bomb stuff thanks but the U.S. dropped two A-bombs. Did they just make two, then shut down the production line?They had made two with a third awaiting final assembly. It would have been ready for use August 17 or 18. In addition there was the TRINITY test device. It seems production continued at a low rate with two available by the end of 1945. By the end of 1946 there were nine The 1945 figure obviously does not include th three devices used that year so the 1946 figure may not include the two used at the ABLE and BAKER tests at Bikini Atoll.. http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/DOE_Fact_Stockpile_1994.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I always thought the non-AAF part of the USArmy reached about 5.9 million. In the initial post I said to not count their respective Air Forces. http://www.history.army.mil/books/agf/AGF004/Table1.htm Ugh! Okay, problems here, some my fault. The figures I quoted were the "actual" (i.e. they actually counted all the individual bodies) enlisted strength of the Army as of 31 March 1945. The figure you quote is the authorized troop basis strength (i.e. what they wanted to have) of all personnel. The "aggregate" (i.e. a count of all the bodies assigned to units) strength was 7,813,319. The "actual" strength then for officers and men (warrants, NCO, and enlisted) was 8,157,386. Are we all confused yet? I was, since I missed that I was quoting the enlisted strength only. The problem remains though, why cut out the USAAF when you have no idea what part of the Soviet strength you need to cut out for the VVS and PVO? Worse, the inactive part of the Soviet forces was potentially huge, by 1 January 1945, there were 6,750,149 operational, 431,838 in STAVKA reserve, and 4,226,376 non-operational. What did that mean? How many were Red Army? VVS? PVO? I have seen figures for the Red Navy, but that's it. Fundamentally, as I said before, you have two different militaries of similar size, but different distribution bewteen services. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Chemistry/NuclearChemistry/NuclearWeapons/FirstChainReaction/FirstNuclWeapons/AdditionalBombs.htm Production estimates given to Sec. Stimson in July 1945 projected a second plutonium bomb would be ready by Aug. 24, that 3 bombs should be available in September, and more each month - reaching 7 or more in December. Improvements in bomb design being prepared at the end of the war would have permitted one bomb to be produced for every 5 kg of plutonium or 12 kg of uranium in output. These improvements were apparently taken into account in this estimate. Assuming these bomb improvements were used, the October capacity would have permitted up to 6 bombs a month. Note that with the peak monthly plutonium and HEU production figures (19.4 kg and 69 kg respectively), production of close to 10 bombs a month was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 http://www.cartage.o...tionalBombs.htm Production estimates given to Sec. Stimson in July 1945 projected a second plutonium bomb would be ready by Aug. 24, that 3 bombs should be available in September, and more each month - reaching 7 or more in December. Improvements in bomb design being prepared at the end of the war would have permitted one bomb to be produced for every 5 kg of plutonium or 12 kg of uranium in output. These improvements were apparently taken into account in this estimate. Assuming these bomb improvements were used, the October capacity would have permitted up to 6 bombs a month. Note that with the peak monthly plutonium and HEU production figures (19.4 kg and 69 kg respectively), production of close to 10 bombs a month was possible. But it seems that point is moot since in this odd version of reality air forces are not allowed to exist. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Atomic land mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro_ Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Rich As of 31 March 1945 AGF was 2.502-million, ASF was 1.097-million, AAF was 1.945-million, and other was 1.422-million. Do you have the same breakdown for the Soviet forces so that you can do a comparison? Do you know what the number includes? In the website below there are plenty of statistics, but not data on overall manpower for VVS and PVO. The only similar thing I found was the number of qualified personnel in VVS on June 1941. Note that this only includes crews, engineers and technicians. http://www.rkka.es/Estadisticas/VVS_stat/05/05_01.htm I have asked the administrator to give me an overall number, let's hope he can provide an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Do you know what the number includes? The exact number as given by the USAAF Statistical Digest was 1,939,926 enlisted, broken into specialty: 359,865 Aircraft Maintenance165,942 Aerial Gunner46,473 Other Aircrew96,464 Armament154,495 Communications39,513 Radar37,526 Medical88,668 Supply60,116 Utility and Construction184,693 Automotive245,929 Administrative169,152 Other Specialists291,090 Other Non-Specialists By Arm of Service it was: 1,521,589 Air Corps10,976 Chemical111,051 Engineer7,704 Finance57,990 Medical17,494 Military Police59,403 Ordnance55,757 Quartermaster97,630 Signal332 Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Estes Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) On US nuc inventory: 1945 21946 9 1947 13 1948 50 1949 170 http://bos.sagepub.c...7.full.pdf+html The 1945 figure does not include two bombs expended. Edited June 8, 2012 by Ken Estes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro_ Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Data for 22/6/1641 VVS KA personnel: 475.656Trained crews: 12.313Combat aircraft: 15.986 (13.650 operational)Other aircraft: 4.824 (4.158 operational)Total aircraft: 20.810 (17.808 operational) Data for 1945 should be about 500.000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro_ Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Data for 22/6/1641 VVS KA personnel: 475.656Trained crews: 12.313Combat aircraft: 15.986 (13.650 operational)Other aircraft: 4.824 (4.158 operational)Total aircraft: 20.810 (17.808 operational) Data for 1945 should be over 500.000 Edited June 15, 2012 by alejandro_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now