Because Trump 2.0

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.

 

https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

 

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

 

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

 

IMHO what actually happened (happy to post a couple thousand links to reputable researchers if you want) is that nobody including the Russians actually thought Trump had a chance of winning, Putin hated Hillary's guts, and they ran a kind of low-budget shitty disinformation campaign that probably influenced like 30 voters, more with the intention of causing a little chaos than actually influencing the election. I mean, the Facebook ad buys they did were pretty small beer, the DNC hacking was a much bigger issue but I still doubt that it had much impact. So in a way the Russians were pro-Trump but they honestly had zero influence on the election, and didn't really expect to.

 

If Trump wasn't a piece of sh*t he would have 1) not called for the Russians to hack his political opponents during the campaign (anybody who's saying he was being sarcastic is full of it) and 2) issued a statement immediately after the election that it happened, but it had no influence whatsoever on the election (which is true!)

 

So now we're left with the impression that the Russians are unstoppable cyber ninjas because they bought some Facebook ads and compromised the DNC via a low-rent phishing attack (happy to provide some open-source sources on that if you want).

 

TL;DR Russia's activity during the election was some basic sh*t, the major takeaway is Trump's reaction to it all, which IMHO is borderline treason.

 

 

I broadly agree with you on that. I certainly do not, and never have, believed Russia actually won the election for Trump. I think it was largely Hillary's incompetence that did that. That said I would not be so quick to assume that these adverts have no effect, particularly on fringe communities. I would not personally be surprised (though ive never read anything to suggest it) that IRA meddling was partially responsible for the Chancellorville disturbance. It certainly is the kind of thing they have been trying to stir up.

 

Is it possible to make more of it than it is? Yes. There is a problem of suggesting the Russians can do more than they actually do, and capabilities they dont. Although if this is in any way accurate, its not for want of ambition. Russia is trying to shape debate wherever they find it, even in highly regional parts of Russia where you would have thought they would have more things to worry about, like not falling asleep in the snow.

 

Putin was actually running an anti Hillary narrative as far back as 2011. The election was just more of the same. Being pro Trump was, looked at another way, being anti Hillary. And Putin hates Hillary because he is convinced she organized the protests against his 2012 inauguration, maybe even interfering with their elections.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/russia-hackers-us-presidential-election-revenge-hillary-clinton-former-us-ambassador-michael-mcfaul-a7469661.html

[JasonJ]

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

 

IMHO what actually happened (happy to post a couple thousand links to reputable researchers if you want) is that nobody including the Russians actually thought Trump had a chance of winning, Putin hated Hillary's guts, and they ran a kind of low-budget shitty disinformation campaign that probably influenced like 30 voters, more with the intention of causing a little chaos than actually influencing the election. I mean, the Facebook ad buys they did were pretty small beer, the DNC hacking was a much bigger issue but I still doubt that it had much impact. So in a way the Russians were pro-Trump but they honestly had zero influence on the election, and didn't really expect to.

 

If Trump wasn't a piece of sh*t he would have 1) not called for the Russians to hack his political opponents during the campaign (anybody who's saying he was being sarcastic is full of it) and 2) issued a statement immediately after the election that it happened, but it had no influence whatsoever on the election (which is true!)

 

So now we're left with the impression that the Russians are unstoppable cyber ninjas because they bought some Facebook ads and compromised the DNC via a low-rent phishing attack (happy to provide some open-source sources on that if you want).

 

TL;DR Russia's activity during the election was some basic sh*t, the major takeaway is Trump's reaction to it all, which IMHO is borderline treason.

Ohhh 2,000 links. That's a lot. Might exceed the letter count allowed in a single post. Most posts seldom reach 2,000 words, for better or for worse

 

Sorry for my dumb post.

[JasonJ]

Ridiculous, what do you say is money from various countries to several high profile - starting with Hillary - treason?

Treasure for treason. Treason for treasure. Loopy doo!

[JasonJ]

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

 

"Islamo-Phobia"..? Is somebody trying to say it's 'irrational' to be distrustful of the Salafists?

Never trust an elf!

[JasonJ]

 

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

 

Black lives matter and other groups involving racial minorities have memberships who were overwhelmingly in favor of Hillary. The art of dissuasion:

Somehow I doubt the NRA did.

 

The KGB has a long history of trying to stir up ethnic tension. In the late 60's and early 70's they were trying to stir up tension with the Black Panthers, to the point of actually setting bombs (that hurt nobody in fairness) on Jewish businesses, trying to pretend the Black panthers did it. Its old hat to them to meddle in such things. The point has to be asked, why were the same group meddling in Black Lives matter, and also the NRA? It wasnt about the election, it was about sewing distrust and perhaps even violence. Looked at from that perspective, the 2016 election was just business as usual.

 

Sure, Putin says he wanted Trump to win. But nobody expected it did they? And by helping him, all they achieved was making him look complicit, which tied congress up in knots for the past year. If you view it as not helping but just trying screw the system up in knots, its worked brilliantly.

Fujii Genki thought Trump would win.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

"Islamo-Phobia"..? Is somebody trying to say it's 'irrational' to be distrustful of the Salafists?

Never trust an elf!

 

 

Now thats funny.

[JasonJ]

I probably shouldn't but...

[Rick]

A most accurate article on the why the failure of socialism is so prevalent among U.S. universities. Any why Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) is so correct.

https://mises.org/library/why-intellectuals-still-support-socialism

Edited November 22, 2019 by Rick

[Rick]

 

He was quoting the words Gordon Sondland testified Trump had said to him on the phone (except I believe for that bit at the end about the final word).

 

--

Soren

Well, he WAS there. You would think he would probably know what he said without having to remind himself.

 

I suddenly had a vision of Winston Churchill in 1940 writing down on a flip pad in big black marker 'Mention Beaches. Fighting on them. Blood and tears. Blood sweat and tears. This is the last word from the English.'

 

 

There was a cartoon in that great humor (NOT humour ) magazine MAD Magazine that had Churchill giving a "...we shall fight them in the fields, we shall fight them in the streets, we shall fight them in the cities..." speech, when an individual looks at him at says "I say old chap, shouldn't we be fighting them in Germany?" Classic1

[Rick]

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a joint press conference Monday that he wanted President Donald Trump to win the 2016 US presidential election.

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-wanted-trump-to-win-2016-election-2018-7

Yea, right. And if that evil Clinton won the election the headline would be "Russian President Vladimir...wanted President Hillary Clinton to win the ... election.

[Rick]

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.

 

https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

 

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

 

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

 

IMHO what actually happened (happy to post a couple thousand links to reputable researchers if you want) is that nobody including the Russians actually thought Trump had a chance of winning, Putin hated Hillary's guts, and they ran a kind of low-budget shitty disinformation campaign that probably influenced like 30 voters, more with the intention of causing a little chaos than actually influencing the election. I mean, the Facebook ad buys they did were pretty small beer, the DNC hacking was a much bigger issue but I still doubt that it had much impact. So in a way the Russians were pro-Trump but they honestly had zero influence on the election, and didn't really expect to.

 

If Trump wasn't a piece of sh*t he would have 1) not called for the Russians to hack his political opponents during the campaign (anybody who's saying he was being sarcastic is full of it) and 2) issued a statement immediately after the election that it happened, but it had no influence whatsoever on the election (which is true!)

 

So now we're left with the impression that the Russians are unstoppable cyber ninjas because they bought some Facebook ads and compromised the DNC via a low-rent phishing attack (happy to provide some open-source sources on that if you want).

 

TL;DR Russia's activity during the election was some basic sh*t, the major takeaway is Trump's reaction to it all, which IMHO is borderline treason.

 

Which goes along with the numerous videos of President Obama stating there is no way a foreign country can influence a U.S. election. Off to top of my head the reasons where due to the decentralization and vastness of U.S. elections. I'm sure there were other reasons he stated.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a joint press conference Monday that he wanted President Donald Trump to win the 2016 US presidential election.

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-wanted-trump-to-win-2016-election-2018-7

Yea, right. And if that evil Clinton won the election the headline would be "Russian President Vladimir...wanted President Hillary Clinton to win the ... election.

 

 

I dont think he would go that far. But I think he certainly would imply that Trump had been robbed by vote rigging, or some epic Clintonian conspiracy.

 

Bear in mind, Trump himself implied if he didnt win, he would challenge the decision. EIther way it went, the Russian's could shake this down to make the US electoral system look a joke.

 

Here is a thing all you Trump supporters need to keep in mind. If it suits Putin's needs, he will do his best to displace Trump, particularly for the traumatic effect it causes on the US. Dont kid yourself because he says nice things about Putin he is safe.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Actually, one last thing about Fiona Hill, I think I heard on her testimony yesterday, the Russians already have had a try at Trump. She said 'Steele had been had'. The implication being that he was fed a load of shit by Russian agents to discredit Trump, although I suspect it was perhaps to their surprise, if it did indeed happen, how well it actually worked.

 

Yes, I was right, its here.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/fiona-hill-clinton-associate-showed-me-steele-dossierbefore-it-was-published-98477

 

She also cast doubt on Steele’s work and his motivations. She said in her deposition that she thought Russians fed Steele disinformation about President Trump. She also said that Steele, who owns a private intelligence firm in London, would “constantly try to drum up business” during their meetings.

Hill told Rep. Devin Nunes on Thursday that she does not recall the specific date when she met Steele in 2016. She said in her deposition that she first met Steele when she served as a national intelligence analyst in the 2000s. Steele was Hill’s counterpart at MI6, she said.

Hill, who left the National Security Council in July, said in her deposition that she was “shocked” to learn that Steele was the author of the dossier. When she read the report, Hill said she had “misgivings and concern that [steele] could have been played.”

She also said in the Nov. 14 deposition that she believed Russia’s disinformation efforts were successful.

“There’s been a cloud over President Trump since the beginning of his presidency, and I think that’s exactly what the Russians intended,” she said.

 

 

 

And the Russians also appear to have been playing the Republican side. Hill also argued that the myth about Ukraine hacking the 2016 election came from Putin and the IRA. Conservative talk show hosts, Fox, anyone whom is pro Trump, vacuumed it up, because it shows that Trump is the victim, not a Russian stooge. Which Ironically backfired, and started the present process, to the Russian intelligence services probable delight.

 

Thats what you have now. its not about left, its not about right. The target is your own Democracy, and people really have to stop being so damned partisan about it.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith

[Rick]

Actually, one last thing about Fiona Hill, I think I heard on her testimony yesterday, the Russians already have had a try at Trump. She said 'Steele had been had'. The implication being that he was fed a load of shit by Russian agents to discredit Trump, although I suspect it was perhaps to their surprise, if it did indeed happen, how well it actually worked.

 

Yes, I was right, its here.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/fiona-hill-clinton-associate-showed-me-steele-dossierbefore-it-was-published-98477

 

She also cast doubt on Steele’s work and his motivations. She said in her deposition that she thought Russians fed Steele disinformation about President Trump. She also said that Steele, who owns a private intelligence firm in London, would “constantly try to drum up business” during their meetings.

Hill told Rep. Devin Nunes on Thursday that she does not recall the specific date when she met Steele in 2016. She said in her deposition that she first met Steele when she served as a national intelligence analyst in the 2000s. Steele was Hill’s counterpart at MI6, she said.

Hill, who left the National Security Council in July, said in her deposition that she was “shocked” to learn that Steele was the author of the dossier. When she read the report, Hill said she had “misgivings and concern that [steele] could have been played.”

She also said in the Nov. 14 deposition that she believed Russia’s disinformation efforts were successful.

“There’s been a cloud over President Trump since the beginning of his presidency, and I think that’s exactly what the Russians intended,” she said.

 

 

 

And the Russians also appear to have been playing the Republican side. Hill also argued that the myth about Ukraine hacking the 2016 election came from Putin and the IRA. Conservative talk show hosts, Fox, anyone whom is pro Trump, vacuumed it up, because it shows that Trump is the victim, not a Russian stooge. Which Ironically backfired, and started the present process, to the Russian intelligence services probable delight.

 

Thats what you have now. its not about left, its not about right. The target is your own Democracy, and people really have to stop being so damned partisan about it.

Cannot disagree with you post, but the only reason there is all these anti-Trump false accusations is because he won the election fair and square! Which is exhibit one of the lies and hypocrisy of the left.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well hand on heart Rick, I think the hypocrisy is even stevens at this point. The Democrats for their previous attempts (since abandoned) to prove Trump only won the election only with Russian complicity. And the Republicans for ignoring the message it sends to America's allies that America will now only defend Nations that say they will help prove Donald Trumps second hand conspiracy theories. At this point, I see both sides as bad as one another.

[Rick]

Well hand on heart Rick, I think the hypocrisy is even stevens at this point. The Democrats for their previous attempts (since abandoned) to prove Trump only won the election only with Russian complicity. And the Republicans for ignoring the message it sends to America's allies that America will now only defend Nations that say they will help prove Donald Trumps second hand conspiracy theories. At this point, I see both sides as bad as one another.

Point taken. But in the U.S. as a whole, foreign thoughts are seldom thought about. We have enough troubles of our own.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I know Rick, and im sure that was the sustaining thought on December 6th 1941, and September 10th 2001. The world changes, whether you want it to or not, and you have to be ready for it.

[Paul G.]

 

 

Sure he did. But that doesn't explain why they targeted far beyond what would have been key battleground for Trump. It looks like inflaming tensions and agitating ethnic and political divides, pretty much exactly what the KGB did 30 years before. It was to destabilise Democracy, not particularly enfranchise Trump. Though as we saw, that helped the same end.

 

https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

 

The ads reveal a sophisticated campaign clearly aimed at supporting Donald Trumps presidential bid and inflaming Americans on some of the most divisive social and political issues in the country, like gun control, Islamophobia, immigration, and police violence. There were even ads aimed at sowing discord among Beyoncé fans.

 

These 3,500 ads are from the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-backed operation that is the subject of a February indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers ongoing investigation into possible coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, and which Congress has also been investigating since after the election. The ads in this latest cache were posted between mid-2015 and mid-2017 and demonstrate how the Russian trolls used Facebooks targeting tools to focus its messages on specific demographics of the American population based on users race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and interest in things like the Tea Party, Malcolm X, funny pics, Fox News, and Maya Angelou. Perhaps the most striking thing in this batch of adsother than the Beyoncé campaignis how fixated the IRA was on racial tensions in general and Black Lives Matter in particular.

Black lives matter and other groups involving racial minorities have memberships who were overwhelmingly in favor of Hillary. The art of dissuasion:

Not clear if you realize "Blacktavist" was shown to be one of the GRU efforts?

[Ivanhoe]

Actually, one last thing about Fiona Hill, I think I heard on her testimony yesterday, the Russians already have had a try at Trump. She said 'Steele had been had'. The implication being that he was fed a load of shit by Russian agents to discredit Trump, although I suspect it was perhaps to their surprise, if it did indeed happen, how well it actually worked.

 

Yes, I was right, its here.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/fiona-hill-clinton-associate-showed-me-steele-dossierbefore-it-was-published-98477

 

She also cast doubt on Steele’s work and his motivations. She said in her deposition that she thought Russians fed Steele disinformation about President Trump. She also said that Steele, who owns a private intelligence firm in London, would “constantly try to drum up business” during their meetings.

 

IIRC, when Steele presented his "dossier" to the Feds, he warned them that the info was probably sketchy at best. So IMHO Steele knew, or suspected, that it was a con job, but a paycheck's a paycheck.

 

And the Russians also appear to have been playing the Republican side. Hill also argued that the myth about Ukraine hacking the 2016 election came from Putin and the IRA. Conservative talk show hosts, Fox, anyone whom is pro Trump, vacuumed it up, because it shows that Trump is the victim, not a Russian stooge. Which Ironically backfired, and started the present process, to the Russian intelligence services probable delight.

If you think the impeachment movement started after Trump's phone call to Ukraine, you haven't been paying attention.

[Murph]

Thus it begins: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/breaking-fbi-official-under-criminal-investigation-for-altering-surveillance-document-of-carter-page-allowing-agency-to-spy-on-trump-campaign/

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Actually, one last thing about Fiona Hill, I think I heard on her testimony yesterday, the Russians already have had a try at Trump. She said 'Steele had been had'. The implication being that he was fed a load of shit by Russian agents to discredit Trump, although I suspect it was perhaps to their surprise, if it did indeed happen, how well it actually worked.

 

Yes, I was right, its here.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/fiona-hill-clinton-associate-showed-me-steele-dossierbefore-it-was-published-98477

 

She also cast doubt on Steele’s work and his motivations. She said in her deposition that she thought Russians fed Steele disinformation about President Trump. She also said that Steele, who owns a private intelligence firm in London, would “constantly try to drum up business” during their meetings.

 

IIRC, when Steele presented his "dossier" to the Feds, he warned them that the info was probably sketchy at best. So IMHO Steele knew, or suspected, that it was a con job, but a paycheck's a paycheck.

 

And the Russians also appear to have been playing the Republican side. Hill also argued that the myth about Ukraine hacking the 2016 election came from Putin and the IRA. Conservative talk show hosts, Fox, anyone whom is pro Trump, vacuumed it up, because it shows that Trump is the victim, not a Russian stooge. Which Ironically backfired, and started the present process, to the Russian intelligence services probable delight.

If you think the impeachment movement started after Trump's phone call to Ukraine, you haven't been paying attention.

 

No, I have. In fact if you go back some you will see me commenting they were jumping from one impeachment prong to another, as the evidence for this one shaped up. He probably should be impeached, but its hardly unreasonable that people are less than impressed after they spent months chasing their tail over the Muller investigation, then changed tracks without even breaking stride. That he probably does deserve to be impeached, doesn't mean the Democrats werent chasing it with unseemly haste. Desperation might be more accurate.

 

Yes, agreed about Steele. My uncomfortable thought is that it was probably rather like the 'Tailor of Panama'. The middleman knew it was duff information (heck, maybe even the Russians told him), but sold it anyway because it what the market wanted. What was it the Roman's said, Caveat Emptor? And that goes for both sides of the house in this one, because accepting the clearly Russian supplied narrative that it was Ukraine that hacked the election, for which there has never been an inch of evidence provided, has put the President in a position where the Democrats have at last a shot at him.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith

[glenn239]

Brian Kennedy IMHO what actually happened (happy to post a couple thousand links to reputable researchers if you want) is that nobody including the Russians actually thought Trump had a chance of winning, Putin hated Hillary's guts, and they ran a kind of low-budget shitty disinformation campaign that probably influenced like 30 voters, more with the intention of causing a little chaos than actually influencing the election. I mean, the Facebook ad buys they did were pretty small beer, the DNC hacking was a much bigger issue but I still doubt that it had much impact. So in a way the Russians were pro-Trump but they honestly had zero influence on the election, and didn't really expect to.

 

 

 

Wikileaks might have been low tech, but what it had going for it was that the information was truthful, damaging to the Democratic Party, and outside of the control of the US main stream media to silence. Why Putin didn't want Clinton as President will be because she was running on a platform that included foreign policy planks in Syria and Ukraine that were contrary to Russian interests. Not being complete idiots, the Russians could understand what she was saying and realised that Trump was far more within their interests as President than Hillary Custer Clinton.

 

If Trump wasn't a piece of sh*t he would have 1) not called for the Russians to hack his political opponents during the campaign (anybody who's saying he was being sarcastic is full of it) and 2) issued a statement immediately after the election that it happened, but it had no influence whatsoever on the election (which is true!)

 

 

It would be surprising, to say the least, that the Presidential candidate on the receiving end of the most one-sided hate filled propaganda campaign in US main stream media history would go after a small bit of Russian political meddling in his favor.

 

 

So now we're left with the impression that the Russians are unstoppable cyber ninjas because they bought some Facebook ads and compromised the DNC via a low-rent phishing attack (happy to provide some open-source sources on that if you want).

 

 

That's CNN propaganda. The general impression I get is that people don't really care. We're bombarded from all sides with advertising these days.

 

TL;DR Russia's activity during the election was some basic sh*t, the major takeaway is Trump's reaction to it all, which IMHO is borderline treason.

 

 

Actually Trump himself is treason to the Left, so quibbling over his reaction to Russian meddling hardly budges the needle. That is to say, if Trump had gone after Putin in the 2016 election about meddling, the Left and its media outlets would have dropped that narrative and picked up another angle of attack.

Edited November 22, 2019 by glenn239

[glenn239]

 

 

Here is a thing all you Trump supporters need to keep in mind. If it suits Putin's needs, he will do his best to displace Trump, particularly for the traumatic effect it causes on the US. Dont kid yourself because he says nice things about Putin he is safe.

 

 

"Oooh, help me Smithers, the Germans are coming."

[seahawk]

Thus it begins: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/breaking-fbi-official-under-criminal-investigation-for-altering-surveillance-document-of-carter-page-allowing-agency-to-spy-on-trump-campaign/

 

The deep state will stop it from getting traction. The US needs a complete new system of law enforcement and courts, that are only bound by the Bible and the Constitution and not deep state rules.

[Jeff]

 

Just listening to Dr Hill. The Russians did not care WHO won the 2016 election. Just that they cast doubt on the legitimacy of whomever won. Exactly. Ive been saying this ever since it happened

Yup and Americans don't seem to understand that.

 

 

That's been at the heart of the Republican response to this charade from the beginning. Who expected Trump to win? Putin expected a wounded Hillary to limp into the White House as payback. Remember, the Russians paid the Clinton Slush Fund, er, Global Initiative $145M and gave Bill $500K for a single speech. That was a down payment. Notice that the CGI has lost tens of millions of dollars since 2016 because the influence peddling racket suddenly became a loser for the "donors".