Elections, Elections, Elections

[JasonJ]

What is on table on an eventual change to the Japanese Constitution? No more self defense only?

Well, besides defense, there seems to be something that the Initiatives from Osaka Party want to change in order to do something like increasing autonomy of Osaka from the national government. So the idea seems to be that they'll support any changes to article 9 if they get the change they want concerning whatever the prefecture power related clause is.

[lucklucky]

Thanks.

[JasonJ]

Thanks.

 

No problem.

 

I probably should add a little more on defense. Article 9 of the constitution is where Japan says it will not go to war and have only a self-defense. This is the big target to be changed. Although, due to raising tensions in Asia because of China's raise and the never ending over hanging threat from North Korea, in 2014, the Japanese government reinterpreted the meaning of the constitution. What that enabled them to do was draw up a number of security and defense related bills that extend the possible role that the SDF (Self-Defense Force) can take. Probably the biggest piece is the "collective Self-Defense" which enables the SDF to defend an ally. Those bills were signed into law in the Fall of 2015. Other bills that got signed into law few months ago enable SDF personnel to fire their rifles while on UN PKO (Peace Keeping Operations). It used to be illegal for the SDF to shoot their rifles. IIRC, they would have to be protected by others that are not legally binded. So now SDF PKO just need to get trained under the new enabling laws and then they will be good to go to join the rest of the killing world while on PKO.

 

I don't know the specifics exactly to the law wordings and such, although I probably should a little more, but defense related things that either directly or indirectly could be affected depending on what and how gets changed in the constitution I think would be, the changing of the name from SDF to something more normal, nuclear weapons, fixed wing fighter jet aircraft carriers, cruise and ballistic missiles, and the legal ability to go on an offensive war. Maybe some other things as well.

[lucklucky]

Yes i guessed something like that. The point about defending an ally is interesting, also i guess a preemptive strike might be on table. There have been some noises about ballistic or cruise missiles to counter the North Korean ones

[JasonJ]

Yes i guessed something like that. The point about defending an ally is interesting, also i guess a preemptive strike might be on table. There have been some noises about ballistic or cruise missiles to counter the North Korean ones

Yes, yet, they're already looking into that in a way which might fit it into the idea of self-defense, thus, without waiting for a change to Article 9.

 

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40923&page=9&do=findComment&comment=1243668

[swerve]

 

I don't know the specifics exactly to the law wordings and such, although I probably should a little more, but defense related things that either directly or indirectly could be affected depending on what and how gets changed in the constitution I think would be, the changing of the name from SDF to something more normal, nuclear weapons, fixed wing fighter jet aircraft carriers, cruise and ballistic missiles, and the legal ability to go on an offensive war. Maybe some other things as well.

 

What about 日本帝国海軍, 日本帝国軍, & 日本帝国空軍?

Edited July 11, 2016 by swerve

[JasonJ]

 

I don't know the specifics exactly to the law wordings and such, although I probably should a little more, but defense related things that either directly or indirectly could be affected depending on what and how gets changed in the constitution I think would be, the changing of the name from SDF to something more normal, nuclear weapons, fixed wing fighter jet aircraft carriers, cruise and ballistic missiles, and the legal ability to go on an offensive war. Maybe some other things as well.

 

What about -

旧日本海軍

旧日本軍

&

日本帝国空軍?

( I hope that's right)

 

Maybe just go with:

 

日本帝国陸軍

日本帝国空軍

日本帝国海軍

 

and leave 旧 for refering to WW2 and earlier.

 

But 帝国 would be politically incorrect in our times so maybe without it

[swerve]

Ah, I see you jumped in before I'd realised my mistake (I know bugger-all kanji) & corrected it.

 

The non-PC element was deliberate.

[JasonJ]

Ah, I see you jumped in before I'd realised my mistake (I know bugger-all kanji) & corrected it.

 

The non-PC element was deliberate.

Just so the others know of the PC violation that had just occurred

[Panzermann]

Just read an article that Abe and the LDP want to cut into civil and human rights as well, because those are supposed to be not asian or japanese or something. Limiting freedom of speech and right to assemble to not disturb public order.

 

Yes, all in the name of "public order" or "safety". Never been abused before.

[sunday]

We are going into a Firefly-like language ecosystem.

 

Wll MODERATOR allow profanity, swearing, and personal attacks in Chinese writing?

[JasonJ]

Just read an article that Abe and the LDP want to cut into civil and human rights as well, because those are supposed to be not asian or japanese or something. Limiting freedom of speech and right to assemble to not disturb public order.

Yes, all in the name of "public order" or "safety". Never been abused before.

Some people will write up all sorts of creepy sounding ways about Abe or the LDP. Nevertheless, as noted before on these boards, Japan is going to slowly change by increasing patriotism and it'll be done in a Japanese way. It'll still be quite far from the military society levels that emerged in the 1930s so long as Japan isn't pushed into a wall. But simply said, as it stands, the current willingness to die for Japan overall is very low. Easily outmatched by both the Koreas, Russia, China, Vietnam, and even the US. So Japan has a long way to go before being reaching comparative levels in that regard. So whatever Japanese creepy whatever stuff that occurs is ultimately to get the country willing to fight in proxy wars, along side the US likely, IMO. It'll also help keep the country more focused in staying sharp instead of being dull filled with the Pacifism. There really is no choice unless just suddenly China implodes real soon. China has lots of internal issues, but imploding still seems quite unlikely.

 

I have to say that I agree with this kind of slow incoming change because it really can't be helped. Japan must stand up to CCP China. It may sound like patting Japan on the back with a sense of simpleton pride, so others may think that if they must. But I can't see it any other way other than it being a reaction to China. If I could change the whole environment to prevent Japan going down that road, I would, but still holding onto such wishy thoughts of idealistic levels of freedom of expression, etc is like dwelling and not helpful in this increasingly tribalistic world. I have been arguing these points a couple of years ago on these boards that the more powerful China becomes, the more freedom of expressions, etc will be at risk in all countries because Chinese propaganda and command economy exploits the open society aspects in such countries that have good levels of freedom of expressions. Thailand lost its democracy. South Korea and Australia are economically hooked on China, and now there are strong signs that the Philippines might tumble into a China sphere.

 

China lacks transparancy, freedom of expression, tight control on expression, single party rule, brutal punishment, and so on. It could be argued that such a country really shouldn't have had an economic opportunity to grow. Of course actual policy like that would seem overwhelmingly unrealistic many years ago, so it probably couldn't be avoided. But I'd say around 2009 when Charter 08 and Liu Xiabo was thrown in prison was the tipping point of when economic and business relations with China really should have been reconsidered and slowly begin a process of reduction. But it wasn't and now we got a real problem in issue because of the CCP. That sort of give the CCP a green light to continue as they were. The fun times are over until China implodes or magically changes internally.

Edited July 12, 2016 by JasonJ

[Simon Tan]

Japanese patriotism is measured by dead Chinese. Always will be.

[JasonJ]

Japanese patriotism is measured by dead Chinese. Always will be.

Running along that in parallel is Europe will always be meant for killing each other.

[Simon Tan]

Actually Europe occasionally is happy to kill Turks.

[Simon Tan]

But Japan always kills Chinese.

[JasonJ]

But Japan always kills Chinese.

No sense arguing with a simpleton that jabs for the sake of jabbing.

[BansheeOne]

Some people will write up all sorts of creepy sounding ways about Abe or the LDP. Nevertheless, as noted before on these boards, Japan is going to slowly change by increasing patriotism and it'll be done in a Japanese way. It'll still be quite far from the military society levels that emerged in the 1930s so long as Japan isn't pushed into a wall. But simply said, as it stands, the current willingness to die for Japan overall is very low. Easily outmatched by both the Koreas, Russia, China, Vietnam, and even the US. So Japan has a long way to go before being reaching comparative levels in that regard. So whatever Japanese creepy whatever stuff that occurs is ultimately to get the country willing to fight in proxy wars, along side the US likely, IMO. It'll also help keep the country more focused in staying sharp instead of being dull filled with the Pacifism. There really is no choice unless just suddenly China implodes real soon. China has lots of internal issues, but imploding still seems quite unlikely.

I have to say that I agree with this kind of slow incoming change because it really can't be helped. Japan must stand up to CCP China. It may sound like patting Japan on the back with a sense of simpleton pride, so others may think that if they must. But I can't see it any other way other than it being a reaction to China. If I could change the whole environment to prevent Japan going down that road, I would, but still holding onto such wishy thoughts of idealistic levels of freedom of expression, etc is like dwelling and not helpful in this increasingly tribalistic world. I have been arguing these points a couple of years ago on these boards that the more powerful China becomes, the more freedom of expressions, etc will be at risk in all countries because Chinese propaganda and command economy exploits the open society aspects in such countries that have good levels of freedom of expressions. Thailand lost its democracy. South Korea and Australia are economically hooked on China, and now there are strong signs that the Philippines might tumble into a China sphere.

 

China lacks transparancy, freedom of expression, tight control on expression, single party rule, brutal punishment, and so on. It could be argued that such a country really shouldn't have had an economic opportunity to grow. Of course actual policy like that would seem overwhelmingly unrealistic many years ago, so it probably couldn't be avoided. But I'd say around 2009 when Charter 08 and Liu Xiabo was thrown in prison was the tipping point of when economic and business relations with China really should have been reconsidered and slowly begin a process of reduction. But it wasn't and now we got a real problem in issue because of the CCP. That sort of give the CCP a green light to continue as they were. The fun times are over until China implodes or magically changes internally.

 

I'm not sure how that is a reply to Panzermann's worry about civil rights (which I have heard about, too, but not seen any specific examples of what Abe supposedly wants to do), unless it's a circumspect way of saying that democratic freedoms need to be rolled back for the good of the nation. Which would be something very Asian and indeed Chinese.

[Simon Tan]

Simple is but utterly precise. You can pitch your Japanese militarism in any way you like. It changes nothing. You are a wonderful example of it.

[bojan]

Actually Europe occasionally is happy to kill Turks.

As I have noted, only time people in Balkans were not on each other throat was when fighting vs Turks.

[JasonJ]

 

Some people will write up all sorts of creepy sounding ways about Abe or the LDP. Nevertheless, as noted before on these boards, Japan is going to slowly change by increasing patriotism and it'll be done in a Japanese way. It'll still be quite far from the military society levels that emerged in the 1930s so long as Japan isn't pushed into a wall. But simply said, as it stands, the current willingness to die for Japan overall is very low. Easily outmatched by both the Koreas, Russia, China, Vietnam, and even the US. So Japan has a long way to go before being reaching comparative levels in that regard. So whatever Japanese creepy whatever stuff that occurs is ultimately to get the country willing to fight in proxy wars, along side the US likely, IMO. It'll also help keep the country more focused in staying sharp instead of being dull filled with the Pacifism. There really is no choice unless just suddenly China implodes real soon. China has lots of internal issues, but imploding still seems quite unlikely.

 

I have to say that I agree with this kind of slow incoming change because it really can't be helped. Japan must stand up to CCP China. It may sound like patting Japan on the back with a sense of simpleton pride, so others may think that if they must. But I can't see it any other way other than it being a reaction to China. If I could change the whole environment to prevent Japan going down that road, I would, but still holding onto such wishy thoughts of idealistic levels of freedom of expression, etc is like dwelling and not helpful in this increasingly tribalistic world. I have been arguing these points a couple of years ago on these boards that the more powerful China becomes, the more freedom of expressions, etc will be at risk in all countries because Chinese propaganda and command economy exploits the open society aspects in such countries that have good levels of freedom of expressions. Thailand lost its democracy. South Korea and Australia are economically hooked on China, and now there are strong signs that the Philippines might tumble into a China sphere.

China lacks transparancy, freedom of expression, tight control on expression, single party rule, brutal punishment, and so on. It could be argued that such a country really shouldn't have had an economic opportunity to grow. Of course actual policy like that would seem overwhelmingly unrealistic many years ago, so it probably couldn't be avoided. But I'd say around 2009 when Charter 08 and Liu Xiabo was thrown in prison was the tipping point of when economic and business relations with China really should have been reconsidered and slowly begin a process of reduction. But it wasn't and now we got a real problem in issue because of the CCP. That sort of give the CCP a green light to continue as they were. The fun times are over until China implodes or magically changes internally.

 

I'm not sure how that is a reply to Panzermann's worry about civil rights (which I have heard about, too, but not seen any specific examples of what Abe supposedly wants to do), unless it's a circumspect way of saying that democratic freedoms need to be rolled back for the good of the nation. Which would be something very Asian and indeed Chinese.

I'd have to say that the US has scaled back freedoms with the patriot act and the current debate about gun rights. And if I'm not mistaken, Poland has been accused of scaling back as well with the censorship of Obama. I don't see how it is an Asian thing. Also I would thing that the Chinese in Hong Kong would like to not be included in that statement. Whenever there's an underestimation of the levels that the PRC goes about their very restricted civil rights cause some really troubling thoughts. As for specific examples, I thought I have informed towards your direction the reduction of free journalism and press situation going on in Japan since Abe. And yes I do feel it is likely necessary for the good of the nation, for the US-Japan alliance, and consequently the rest of the region. If you want more specific examples, then well I'm sorry, I try to do what I can about informing TN here about Japan while at the same time following up on the multitude of other situations that are going on. For example just yesterday, I noticed a long French piece that you posted up that I'd like to read, but there's that, there's the tribunal decision is supposed to be released that I haven't checked to see if news popped up, and now this thread. I can do only so much. Press demands and have high standards is fine, my apologies for not meeting them.

[JasonJ]

Simple is but utterly precise. You can pitch your Japanese militarism in any way you like. It changes nothing. You are a wonderful example of it.

The only thing stopping the assertive CCP China from dominating the Asia-Pacific is the US and Japan. They have other partner countries that are worth noting but in the end it's the US and Japan. And those two have a very integrated defense relation, I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if more so than the defense relation between the US and any other European country. Thus the very idea of going fanboy Japanese militarism doesnt make any sense to begin with. Giving praise for Japanese military tech is the same as giving praise for US military tech.

[Panzermann]

 

I'm not sure how that is a reply to Panzermann's worry about civil rights (which I have heard about, too, but not seen any specific examples of what Abe supposedly wants to do), unless it's a circumspect way of saying that democratic freedoms need to be rolled back for the good of the nation. Which would be something very Asian and indeed Chinese.

I haven't found much apart from this being mentioned on the side in an article in the Tagesspiegel and others. But then there is a general trend to reduce freedom of speech and press in America, Europe and Japan has not been free of this in recent years either.

 

But nothing concrete has turned up for me so far, if and what Abe and LDP are planning.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Panzermann

[JasonJ]

Panzermann,

 

The changes I talk about that are happening in Japan are, AFAIK, not really to be found in civil laws. But some examples of civil law related I can recall is the recognition for gay marriage in a ward or two in Tokyo or somewhere.

 

Another is a new law against anti-Korean hate speech. On one hand, it's to be seen how much it is effective. I do recall seeing one headline saying that it he law has had its first example of enforcement, for whatever that's worth. But on the other hand, it brings the question about limiting free speech. The way I see it is that in the last 3-4 years, anti-Korean sentiment has raising sharply because Takeshima and the comfort women. Refer to the 4th question in this big post to see the huge drop of feelings of friendliness towards South Korea. Beyond typical mud slinging, there have been things like Japanese protesters with the anti-hate korean posters and what not marching through neighborhoods where many ethnic Koreans live. And there has been things like, for example, in Japan there is (or a few) grade schools run by ethnic North Koreans with ethnic North Korean students. I recall that there has been some cases of harassment of students or faculty on their way to school. Granted, being related to North Korea is going to come with a bag of nuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baWvh4eYCig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpKhgWuzerU

 

The new anti-Korean hate laws are probably an attempt to calm down the anti (South) Korean sentiment while South Korea has it's struggle in working out the comfort women deal signed at the end of December last year. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little push from the US on both Japan with the laws and on South Korea with working out the deal.

 

So getting back to the original point, the changes that I talked about are happening culturally IMO, not in civil law. There are little things that help make the SDF or the Japanese military such as the zero more socially accepted. Is that good or bad? It depends on historical recognition. I feel that I have to address that point now upon mentioning it, but I'm just going to post some links, because I'm not going to type it all out again. On the comfort women..

 

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39528&view=findpost&p=1150575

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40932&page=6&do=findComment&comment=1231109

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40932&page=6&do=findComment&comment=1231116

 

And for Nanking Massacre..

http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/articles/Askew.html

 

Of course, that does not excuse what Imperial Japan did concerning those and the many other atrocities, but it needs to be understood that the events were heavily exaggerated and western media typically ate it up giving an impression that Japan has never sufficiently acknowledge and never sufficiently apologized. Well its up to the reader I suppose.

 

But ultimately its the "peaceful" raise of China that is inspiring the following changes.

 

Anyway...........

 

Examples of the SDF. Of course there's the anime GATE.

 

There's a big event held every year starting in 2012 for the internet culture of Japan centered around a Japanese youtube-like website called Niconico. Not sure about every year, probably every year, there's a booth for the SDF. One year they had a Type 10 on display. Another year they had an Apache on display. This year, they had a MCV (Maneuver Combat Vehicle) and an F-15 engine on display. They also had a booth for the US military for this year's event. This clip is an interview for the 2013 event. Mind you, I didn't watch all these videos front to back, I'm just pulling them up and linking them as back up.

 

After the Kumamoto earthquake, A zero with the Kumamoto bear mascot painted next to the hinomaru emblems flew over Kumamoto for about 30 minutes meant for cheering up the area.

 

I have little idea what past G8 or past G7 meetings locations and themes were like, but think the Shinto sort of atmosphere at this years G7 meeting at Ise gives a sense of changes. I kind of doubt past meetings had a similar atmosphere but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

And there's this MV which was originally requested by NHK to the music artist Sheena Ringo. It was supposed to go along with soccer with FIFA but well whatever, it's got a pride in Japan feel to it obviously, and it's something that's very rare in general. I posted it once in TN somewhere else.

 

Things like these are what the changes are.

Edited July 13, 2016 by JasonJ

[Nobu]

And for Nanking Massacre..

http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/articles/Askew.html

 

David Askew, the author of the above, is a reputable source who thoroughly debunks Iris Chang's "The Rape of Nanking." I respect his historian's approach of trying to separate the truth from the ideological rhetoric on both sides.