Andrew Jaremkow Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I was looking at the Israeli Military Photos topic on MilitaryPhotos.net, and came across some pictures of Israeli Cobra helicopters with a weapons fit I do not recognize.http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?58508-Israel-Defense-Forces-%28Read-First-Post!%29/page1059 Instead of the usual gatling gun under the chin, the helicopter has a wedge shaped object in that position, and instead of the typical large ATGM tubes it has a smaller hardpoint of some sort. It looks like the wedge shaped object is some sort of trainable directional antenna. Interestingly, the unit seems to be organized with a roughly 50 / 50 mix of these helicopters and those with the normal gatling and ATGM fit. Here's another picture showing a Cobra with no chin gun, but no antenna either, although it does have the small hardpoint. A little more googling turned up a picture of a Cobra carrying the antenna as well as what look like missile boxes on the hardpoint. So what is this system? I don't think this would be Spike ER, which brochures show to be tube launched and fibre optically guided, so the helicopter can retain its gun. My guess would be Spike NLOS / Tamuz, which is a box launched long range missile that uses a radio guidance link. If so, wow. A 25 km range missile on a highly mobile and elusive helicopter platform. Good luck defending against that... My weak google-fu hasn't turned up a name for this combination. Is there a new model name / number for the Cobras carrying this weapons fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Not much info I'm afraid. My guess would be the "antenna" is a very high magnification stabilised EO system associated with the new(ish) missile system. http://www.kamov.net/general-aviation/israeli-ah-1-tzefa-receives-spike-missile-derivative/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Page 30: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102126893/Combat-Aircraft-Monthly-Sept-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) When you really need to reach out and touch someone. Chris do you know of any publications that are similar to that magazine but for AFVs? Edited August 16, 2013 by Mr King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 When you really need to reach out and touch someone. Chris do you know of any publications that are similar to that magazine but for AFVs? Unfortunately, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jaremkow Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thanks for the links Chris. The more I look at that chin object, the more and more I think that it's an antenna of some sort, such as a horn antenna with a curved waveguide at the back and a dielectric cover on the front. Here's some assorted horn antennae, rotated to match the orientation seen in the photo above, and the general shape is a pretty good match (well, to my eyes anyway ). We know that the SPIKE NLOS system uses a fairly large directional antenna to communicate with the missile. If Machtselet is a member of the SPIKE NLOS family, then presumably it needs some sort of directional data link antenna too. A pointable chin antenna might do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Yeah, I was thinking a high-freq radar antenna for illuminating the target. But in this age of affordable and reliable ECM, a directional data link is also pretty desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Likely these choppers are optimized for taking out small targets in an urban environment that requires very good accuracy and not much collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth P. Katz Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 One of the premier aircraft porn magazines. Page 30: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102126893/Combat-Aircraft-Monthly-Sept-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 One of the premier aircraft porn magazines. Page 30: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102126893/Combat-Aircraft-Monthly-Sept-12 Ohh, yes. Since I'm in a coffee shop, I clicked off in shock--until I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Answered here before: http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37672&page=2 Post no 35. Edit: Incidently I made a post on page 1060 on that thread on mp.net explaining exactly what this is, a Spike NLOS equipped Tzefa with a horn antennae for the radio/datalink guidance of the missiles. The post, together with the last photo in your first post here, was quickly censored after an Israeli member pulled the Secret Squirrel card... Photos of this Tzefa configuration has been on the net for a few years now, and its not like you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what this stuff is... Edited August 20, 2013 by zakk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRW Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 One of the premier aircraft porn magazines. Page 30: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102126893/Combat-Aircraft-Monthly-Sept-12 aaaaaaargh - scribd is blocked here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jaremkow Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Answered here before: http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37672&page=2 Post no 35. Aha! I should have remembered to to check that thread. Thanks for the reminder. It's interesting that the helicopter in your picture has the bulkier active laser jammer over the engine, while all the ones in the pictures I found have the more conventional 'hot brick / disco ball' style jammers. How long have the laser jammers been in service now? Are they planning to phase them in across the fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) From: http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-ground-based-squadron-guarding-the-syrian-border/ Edited August 22, 2013 by Sardaukar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charles Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 From: http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-ground-based-squadron-guarding-the-syrian-border/ Thats 3 different warheads there.Anyone like to guess what type they are?. Thermobaric, heat, loiter..... . Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Charles, it is impossible to see what kind of warhead a Tamuz or Spike NLOS missile is equipped with from a head on view. What we are seeing here is actually two generations of missiles. The 5 left ones are from one generation, the single right one is from another generation. Of the 5 left ones, the missiles with orange seeker heads are thermal imaging guided, the missiles with transparent seeker heads are optical/video guided. The right one I only have have an opinion about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Andrew, I wouldn't know for sure. The IAF has ordered active laser jammers for at least a part of their helicopter force. The Tzefa in my photo could be one of the first to receive the production version of the laser jammer. But he IAF doesn't have to many Tzefas, so if they allready started to roll out the laser jammers half a year ago, I guess we would have seen a lot more of these by now. So my guess would be that this is a test example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charles Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Charles, it is impossible to see what kind of warhead a Tamuz or Spike NLOS missile is equipped with from a head on view. What we are seeing here is actually two generations of missiles. The 5 left ones are from one generation, the single right one is from another generation. Of the 5 left ones, the missiles with orange seeker heads are thermal imaging guided, the missiles with transparent seeker heads are optical/video guided. The right one I only have have an opinion about.Zakk, thank you for the information. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jaremkow Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Is that an additional sensor aperture on the new generation missile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not neccessarily a new generation missile... My hunch is that it is a SALH sensor i addition to the optical/video sensor. But who am I to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not neccessarily a new generation missile... My hunch is that it is a SALH sensor i addition to the optical/video sensor. But who am I to know... That would make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Sensors are interesting too...thermal & optical I do recognize. But what is the small thing left of optical? Recording camera comes to my mind first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max H Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 If you have an optical sensor already, why not just record the feed from that? You're adding more weight for something that could be done just as well entirely from the launching vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Sardaukar, most likely a laser, either a rangefinder or a target designator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Sardaukar, most likely a laser, either a rangefinder or a target designator. Ah, makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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