Dear Quadrupedal, you have been a member of this Grate Sight for long enough to be at least aware that discussion of the original topic at some point does start to veer one way or another, sometimes in several directions successively or simultaneously. Call it lack of discipline if you will but to me it's an enriching experience as members along the way find other more-or-less related themes they deem worth pursuing. I definitely am not a fan of that exclusivistic or deterministic model, and am much in favour of letting ideas flow and expand, intertwining different trains of thought. If this fosters stupid offtopic questions is perfectly fine to me, many people have called me stupid with more or less reason so I'm not easily offended. By the way, did you know the French did have Panthers in Indochina? I'd never heard of those suicidal muppets but I agree on one point: West Bank settlements should be evacuated as Gaza, courtesy of Mr Sharon. The effect was to provide the Pals with a contiguous extent of land, a what they to it was plane to see. I expect a larger amount of land with proportionally more people would amplify the internecine effect... I don't see why an entire people must live in conditions like those, but look at the neighborhood around, where in their co-religionist countries have they ever been received and not forced to live in ghettos? And what about lousy leadership, Mr Abbas palace in Ramallah that had to be renamed a cultural building because it was being a bit too much? Time to start a new Intifada to draw the attention away from the internal rat-holes. It never fails and the usual Useful Idiots send a few dollars more. Why, I didn't say a word about Evangelicals, but I managed to inject the famous Indochina Panthers! I claim that as an achievement