hatakashi Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 When I read "SPECS" on books or websites they often say CR2 is the slowest both on, and off road.However, I've also seen/read/heard from various sources that CR2's off road speed is among the top with Leclerc, above M1A2 and Leopard 2A6Which is true?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatakashi Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for your answer, and I've seen that Top Gear episode, excellent "dual"!But still ... how could ppl claim that CR2 's off road speed is the fastest? or they simply mean CR2's cross country mobility is the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for your answer, and I've seen that Top Gear episode, excellent "dual"! Duel friend, in english it is duel. ;-) And about FV4034 mobility, in my opinion all modern western tanks have equall mobility on road and off road. Leclerc and FV4034 have hydrogas suspension that gives probably more smooth ride in hard terrain, when M1 and Leo2 use much simple suspension system, the ride is still preatty smooth, maybe slightly more rough. ;-) But then again, if you "switch off" governor in M1's engine, you can go really fast on flat road, more than 100km/h I suppose, of course same fo other tanks but I suppose second after M1 will be Leclerc then Leo2 and CR2. But this will cut life time of engine, suspension, transmission, tracks etc. So better is just don't doing this. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta tank 6 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Duel friend, in english it is duel. ;-) And about FV4034 mobility, in my opinion all modern western tanks have equall mobility on road and off road. Leclerc and FV4034 have hydrogas suspension that gives probably more smooth ride in hard terrain, when M1 and Leo2 use much simple suspension system, the ride is still preatty smooth, maybe slightly more rough. ;-) But then again, if you "switch off" governor in M1's engine, you can go really fast on flat road, more than 100km/h I suppose, of course same fo other tanks but I suppose second after M1 will be Leclerc then Leo2 and CR2. But this will cut life time of engine, suspension, transmission, tracks etc. So better is just don't doing this. :-) Damian, Not only may it reduce life time of engine, suspension, transmission, tracks, etc. DON'T FORGET THE LIFE OF THE CREW!! :-) The M-1 is fast enough and when I was 25 years old or so, I told my driver to slow down!! I though we were all going to die! 60+ tons going downhill on a German two line highway, so fast that my driver was afraid to turn his head to the left to look at the speedometer and tell me the speed!! Ouch! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralB Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm of the understanding that there is no 'governor' to 'switch off' - the ECU controls max vehicle speed and the only way to 'switch it off' is to reprogram it - much like most modern autos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm of the understanding that there is no 'governor' to 'switch off' - the ECU controls max vehicle speed and the only way to 'switch it off' is to reprogram it - much like most modern autos.Entirely correct and anybody that says otherwise is blowing smoke. That said, I gave the benefit of the doubt to Damian because in a manner of speaking, he is correct. The M1 was governened down after it was realized that little good came to the tank and crew when it was allowed to travel at higher cross country speeds. If the Overspeed limiter program is eliminated the M1 will be returned to its full capacity with the thrown tracks, broken final drives, and concussions to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Delta tank 6, any problems with brakes after such downhill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Pardon my ignorance, I've always thought the governor was a mechanical thing in the engine or someplace in the driver's cab that required tools to remove. So it's a software/program that needs reprogramming, correct? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Pardon my ignorance, I've always thought the governor was a mechanical thing in the engine or someplace in the driver's cab that required tools to remove. So it's a software/program that needs reprogramming, correct? Thanks.Yes, it is software. As soon as the M1 passes its governed speed, which used to be 45 mph, but is now 42.5 mph AIUI, an 'overspeed*' situation occurs and the throttle becomes non-responsive until speed falls below the overspeed threshold. *And a big red warning light illuminates for the driver indicating the transmission is at overspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta tank 6 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Delta tank 6, any problems with brakes after such downhill? IIRC the brakes are in the transmission, so no, no problems with the brakes. Right before I told the driver to slow down we made a left turn and I thought the turret was going to pop off and continue straight down the road while the hull made the left hand turn. I have no idea how fast we were going, but 60+ tons should not go that fast on planet earth! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta tank 6 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Entirely correct and anybody that says otherwise is blowing smoke. That said, I gave the benefit of the doubt to Damian because in a manner of speaking, he is correct. The M1 was governened down after it was realized that little good came to the tank and crew when it was allowed to travel at higher cross country speeds. If the Overspeed limiter program is eliminated the M1 will be returned to its full capacity with the thrown tracks, broken final drives, and concussions to prove it. DKTanker, Yep! I got a concussion, 17 stitches in my left knee, and a ripped pair of coveralls after I landed on the loaders machine gun handle and then fell to the turret floor unconscious! About 5 years later I started having problems with my left knee and after waiting the mandatory two years (this is the manly way of doing things, fear of doctors and hospitals! ) before being told to go to the hospital to get it checked out, they discovered that I had torn my posterior cruciate ligament (PCL) (almost a complete tear) in that little tank accident in October 1982. That little accident would of never of happened in an M60 series tank, not enough speed, and if it did get up to that speed the suspension system would of failed in a massive way! Mike Edited August 17, 2009 by Delta tank 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 IIRC the brakes are in the transmission, so no, no problems with the brakes. Right before I told the driver to slow down we made a left turn and I thought the turret was going to pop off and continue straight down the road while the hull made the left hand turn. I have no idea how fast we were going, but 60+ tons should not go that fast on planet earth! MikeThe brakes are indeed in the transmission but that isn't why you didn't have problems, they're just a very good brake system. Tanks from the M46-M60s all had brakes internal to the transmission and you can ask anybody that crewed those tanks for any length of time, the brake systems were merely adequate. You certainly couldn't lock up the tracks on an M60 as you can with an M1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charles Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The brakes are indeed in the transmission but that isn't why you didn't have problems, they're just a very good brake system. Tanks from the M46-M60s all had brakes internal to the transmission and you can ask anybody that crewed those tanks for any length of time, the brake systems were merely adequate. You certainly couldn't lock up the tracks on an M60 as you can with an M1. What other MBT's have this arrangement?. TIA Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Probably all modern tanks I suppose. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Ah, thanks DK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatakashi Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Thanks for all your info, so I gather that the "CR2 is the fastest offroad 3rd Gen MBT" is a false claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Thanks for all your info, so I gather that the "CR2 is the fastest offroad 3rd Gen MBT" is a false claim Never actually seen that claim I must admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatakashi Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Never actually seen that claim I must admit. First ever time I heard that was from Top Gear's episode, when a CR2 was chasing JC's Landrover.Then I read it on few translated news articles recently.And most recently, I saw it again on a Youtube video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 You must admit that this is mostly from people that have no real knowledge about modern tanks and this is, how to say it... patriotic proud fixation? As we know for many people some thing like i.e. modern tank is a form of national symbol or national proud so this automatically cut in their mind something like impartiality and always equipment from their country is better than the rest even if we know that it is not better but just equal or even worser (of course CR2 is equal and comparabale to other western modern tanks, is just the same class so no superiority, anyway I don't see it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Thank you, Delta 6 and DK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Thanks for all your info, so I gather that the "CR2 is the fastest offroad 3rd Gen MBT" is a false claim The CR2 just doesn't have the power/weight ratio to stand up to that claim. That said, I took Clarkson's statement (he's an entertainer after all) as a general statement, that the CR2 is representative of many modern tanks that are quite nimble and fast cross country. Toss in a bit of national pride for good measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth P. Katz Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Are the tank crew members belted to their seats in a modern tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Are the tank crew members belted to their seats in a modern tank?M1s no, nor am I aware of any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieste Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 M1s no, nor am I aware of any others. At the very least the newer Leopard (et al) driver is, as he wears the 'seat' as a harness as part of the anti-mine protection system. I also thought that some IFVs had belts for their passengers, but that may be rare, or not used operationally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckherl Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) At the very least the newer Leopard (et al) driver is, as he wears the 'seat' as a harness as part of the anti-mine protection system. I also thought that some IFVs had belts for their passengers, but that may be rare, or not used operationally At the present only safety engineered restraining devices for M1 series would be chest pad for gunner and a shield that is erected for the TC so that he doesn`t fall into the path of the maingun. The U.S is also researching a better restraint device for some crew members also due to IEDs, this could cause some concerns though. Edited August 18, 2009 by eckherl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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