Ancient Bear Defence

[Benjamin Etxaburu]

The idea of an oversized broadhead is good, but you have to be able to stabilize it.  THis might be rather difficult.

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nothing is easy on weaponry designing, but this one isn't particularly difficult. try these two:

1) use oversized fins ("feathers") as companion to oversized broadhead, or

2) use oversized sharp metal fins (on a short bolt) AS the broadhead (think of a concorde shaped arrow).

[Keith L]

How about a claymore, I mean the mine not the sword.

[sunday]

How about a claymore, I mean the mine not the sword.

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That's not ancient

[Yish]

Okay, what about charging elephants?

Obviously, any sort of armor would be pointless.

Supposedly, men with heavy scythe swords were able to hack their legs off with a quick succession of blows.

Personally, I'd take a fast horse, a bow and many arrows. And I'd be aiming for the mahout.

[DougRichards]

Okay, what about charging elephants?

Obviously, any sort of armor would be pointless.

Supposedly, men with heavy scythe swords were able to hack their legs off with a quick succession of blows.

Personally, I'd take a fast horse, a bow and many arrows. And I'd be aiming for the mahout.

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Two solutions to elephants that worked, both involved numbers: Slingers massing their fire against elephant's head, turning it away. Alexanders army used a phalanx with locked shields to drive elephants back.

 

I still think that Roman scorpios and light catapults would have been effective anti-elephant weapons.

 

As for individual versus elephant? No much point in trying to use an edged weapon. I have heard of a modern bow hunter stalking and killing an elephant with one arrow throught its eye into its brain, would have been quite a shot, and I would say that the elephant was probably at rest, and not charging. Also a terrible waste of a wonderful creature so that someone could claim an elephant.

 

Only other possibility would be someone like a Mongol horseman, firing a series of arrows whilst evading the elephant's charge, hoping that oune gets through and hits a vulnerable spot.

[Cookie Monster]

Which cat is stronger? A tiger or a lion. I used to think that tigers were more powerful than lions but after comparing the sizes of those two, I am not so sure.

[TSJ]

No lion has ever weighed 800 lbs in the wild. Tigers have. Siberian tigers get huge. Tigers rule except when compared to a grizzly bear. Or a polar bear for that matter.

 

I wish the American lion had not gone extinct. I have seen the bones of an American lion taken from the La Brea tar pits compared to an African lion skeleton and the American lion was 50% bigger. That was one awesome kitty cat about 12,000 years ago! Saber tooth tigers were not small either although not as big as the American lion. A trip to the La Brea tar pits is a great educational experience.

[DougRichards]

No lion has ever weighed 800 lbs in the wild. Tigers have. Siberian tigers get huge. Tigers rule except when compared to a grizzly bear. Or a polar bear for that matter.

 

I wish the American lion had not gone extinct. I have seen the bones of an American lion taken from the La Brea tar pits compared to an African lion skeleton and the American lion was 50% bigger. That was one awesome kitty cat about 12,000 years ago! Saber tooth tigers were not small either although not as big as the American lion. A trip to the La Brea tar pits is a great educational experience.

160832[/snapback]

 

And these would have been no slouch either as carnivores:

 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Lion-k...2302290818.html

 

Lion king of Ice Age

April 3, 2005

The Sun-Herald

 

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A marsupial lion that roamed Australia during the Ice Age had the most powerful bite of any known animal in the world, living or extinct, an Australian and Canadian research team has discovered.

 

More closely related to a wombat than an African lion, the 100-kilogram marsupial known as Thylacoleo carnifex could out-bite the sabre-toothed tiger, the bone-cracking spotted hyena and the Tasmanian Devil.

 

The researchers compared the bite force of the marsupial lion with 38 different species, living and extinct, and found that its jaws were much stronger than any other species for its size.

 

The team, Colin McHenry of the University of Newcastle, Dr Stephen Wroe of the University of Sydney and Professor Jeffrey Thomason of the University of Guelph in Ontario, published their findings in an online paper for the Proceedings of the Royal Society series.

 

"From measurements of skull dimensions we predicted bite force in a wide range of mammalian carnivores," Dr Wroe, a palaeontologist, said in a statement.

 

"I had a hunch the marsupial lion would have a very powerful bite but we were surprised at just how hard they were biting given their size.

 

"A good-sized marsupial lion could weigh up to 130 kilos - the size of a front row rugby forward."

 

Related to wombats and koalas, Thylacoleo carnifex is referred to as the marsupial lion because of its robust, cat-like appearance, and was capable of grasping its prey with strong semi-opposable thumb claws.

 

Combined with its powerful jaws and huge incisor teeth, the marsupial lion was the largest mammalian predator in Australia during the Ice Age and became extinct some time within the past 45,000 years.

 

"Its biggest prey would have been the Diprotodon, a gigantic wombat-like creature that could weigh over three tonnes," Dr Wroe said.

 

"Using the same methods we have applied to measure the bite force of the marsupial lion, we can also estimate or predict the maximum prey size of living species."

[DougRichards]

Of course, an even more interesting face up would be ancient defence against a rhino!

[gewing]

nothing is easy on weaponry designing, but this one isn't particularly difficult. try these two:

1) use oversized fins ("feathers") as companion to oversized broadhead, or

2) use oversized sharp metal fins (on a short bolt) AS the broadhead (think of a concorde shaped arrow).

160611[/snapback]

 

 

2) is why I have always been interested in the italian "armor piercing shot" APFSDS load for the 12 ga. an 1800 fps Armor piercing broadhead??? :):)

[gewing]

No lion has ever weighed 800 lbs in the wild. Tigers have. Siberian tigers get huge. Tigers rule except when compared to a grizzly bear. Or a polar bear for that matter.

 

I wish the American lion had not gone extinct. I have seen the bones of an American lion taken from the La Brea tar pits compared to an African lion skeleton and the American lion was 50% bigger. That was one awesome kitty cat about 12,000 years ago! Saber tooth tigers were not small either although not as big as the American lion. A trip to the La Brea tar pits is a great educational experience.

160832[/snapback]

 

 

I also like the American Cheetah of the period, the size of a current Lion, iirc.

[pluto77189]

I also like the American Cheetah of the period, the size of a current Lion, iirc. 

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There's quite a bit of speculation that the american cheetah is the reason for the pronghorn - pronghorns can run as fast as anything in th eafrican plains, faster than just about ANYTHING -and they can do it for a long time. There's nothing around today that would necessitate such speed and endurance - a big a$$ed cheetah would make sense.

 

Or the short faced bear - they probably had much more distance running than other bear -long legs on them. What monsters they must have been.

 

Elephants big thing was that they scared horses. It was difficult to get them to go near war elephants. Men vs. elephant, I'd go with massed pikes backed with longbows. Elephants aren't stupid, and would turn from pikes.

 

Dinosaurs? Therapods(predatory dinos) woudl be fairly easy to down. Take out a leg - that's all it'll take. One well-placed axe-swing, halberd strike, or heavy morning star to the lower leg, and you've got a seriously wounded predator - maybe. Of course, getting past the thrashing jaws is a problem. If you could get one crazy guy to get in close and stick a heavy(and long spiked) pick into the foot of a therapod, it's in trouble.

 

If I had to take on a big therapod(T.rex size) I'd use pikes and spears. try to spear him in the legs to slow him down, and if he gets close, pike em.

 

Ceratopsians - I don't know. If they charge, you're dead without an RPG- 7 or LAW.

 

Sauropods would be tough - the tails would whip you in half. Heavy "three handed" sword swipe to the ligaments of the legs is about all I can think of. Bring it down and try to lance it like a whale.

 

Ankylosaurs would be tough. I'd say caltrops to wound, then spears to the soft parts.

[Stevely]

I don't know, I am kinda glad we don't have some of these critters around on the planet anymore. Bad enough having a mountain lion show up in your backyard, imagine an American Lion or sabre tooth...

[toysoldier]

Jurassic Park meets Gladiator... the movie i wanna see.

 

If I had to take on a big therapod(T.rex size) I'd use pikes and spears.  try to spear him in the legs to slow him down, and if he gets close, pike em. 

 

Ceratopsians - I don't know.  If they charge, you're dead without an RPG- 7 or LAW. 

 

Sauropods would be tough - the tails would whip you in half.  Heavy "three handed" sword swipe to the ligaments of the legs is about all I can think of.  Bring it down and try to lance it like a whale. 

 

Ankylosaurs would be tough.  I'd say caltrops to wound, then spears to the soft parts.

161224[/snapback]

[gewing]

There's quite a bit of speculation that the american cheetah is the reason for the pronghorn - pronghorns can run as fast as anything in th eafrican plains, faster than just about ANYTHING -and they can do it for a long time.  There's nothing around today that would necessitate such speed and endurance - a big a$$ed cheetah would make sense.

 

Or the short faced bear - they probably had much more distance running than other bear -long legs on them.  What monsters they must have been. 

 

Elephants big thing was that they scared horses.  It was difficult to get them to go near war elephants.  Men vs. elephant, I'd go with massed pikes backed with longbows.  Elephants aren't stupid, and would turn from pikes.

 

Dinosaurs?  Therapods(predatory dinos) woudl be fairly easy to down.  Take out a leg - that's all it'll take.  One well-placed axe-swing, halberd strike, or heavy morning star to the lower leg, and you've got a seriously wounded predator - maybe.  Of course, getting past the thrashing jaws is a problem.  If you could get one crazy guy to get in close and stick a heavy(and long spiked) pick into the foot of a therapod, it's in trouble.

 

If I had to take on a big therapod(T.rex size) I'd use pikes and spears.  try to spear him in the legs to slow him down, and if he gets close, pike em. 

 

Ceratopsians - I don't know.  If they charge, you're dead without an RPG- 7 or LAW. 

 

Sauropods would be tough - the tails would whip you in half.  Heavy "three handed" sword swipe to the ligaments of the legs is about all I can think of.  Bring it down and try to lance it like a whale. 

 

Ankylosaurs would be tough.  I'd say caltrops to wound, then spears to the soft parts.

161224[/snapback]

 

 

 

Caltrops (big ones) are a good idea. the basic spikes and such set to deter cavalry would help, and enough longbowmen might be able to deter them. FIRE might help.

 

heck, siege arbalests or light ballistae might beable to hit things that big, and that should slow them down.

 

Lariats, tripwires, etc...

 

 

 

Thank God we don't have to test these theories!

[WRW]

Or a member of the "What the hell, I could die in my sleep tomorrow." club.

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I have two options

 

send out my (much) better half, any bear that would dare get in her way would die

 

alternatively I could send out our dog aka the schune, while the bear is rolling on the ground laughing we could bash it over the head

 

WRW