The Book Topic

[Rick]

Just finished "Amateurs to Arms!" "A Military History of the War of 1812" by John Elting, author of the mentioned "Swords Around a Throne."

It appears the U.S. "won" due to Napoleon, the vastness of the area involved, and primitive at best roads.

 

[17thfabn]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

It appears the U.S. "won" due to Napoleon, the vastness of the area involved, and primitive at best roads.

Most histories say the end result of the War of 1812 was "status quo ante bellum" . Does the book claim the U.S. won? 

I notice you put "won" in quotes. 

[Rick]

12 minutes ago, 17thfabn said:

Most histories say the end result of the War of 1812 was "status quo ante bellum" . Does the book claim the U.S. won? 

I notice you put "won" in quotes. 

Basically the book states the U.S. was lucky that it did not suffer worst than what did. That it set in motion for the U.S. the foundation of a professional army and greatly decreasing the importance of militias. Finally, that both Great Britain and the U.S. came to respect one another in that future disagreements between the two nations did not escalate into war.

[17thfabn]

3 hours ago, Rick said:

Basically the book states the U.S. was lucky that it did not suffer worst than what did.

I could see a much worse outcome for the U.S. than what actually happened.

After the end of the Napoleonic Wars if the British Empire had turned its might against the U.S. it could have turned out far worse for the U.S.

Perhaps the British were tired of almost 20 years of on and off again war. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by 17thfabn

[Rick]

British Soldier's Story : Roger Lamb's Narrative of the American Revolution 

A tenacious n.c.o. who twice escaped as a p.o.w. Not quite what I was looking for in describing the "ordinary" British soldier of this time.  
 

[arcweasel]

Does anyone have any recommendations for books on interwar French aircraft in English?

Jay

[17thfabn]

I've been reading some of Mike Blakely's western novels.

He writes historical novels, mostly dealing with the American South West in the age of the Indian wars.  He is also country singer song writer, but don't hold that against him.

I recently read his "Comanche Dawn".  It is about a small tribe in the late 1680 into the early 1700 period. They would eventually become the Comanches!

It starts in 1687. Up to this time the tribe had not seen a horse or a European. 

The book deals with their first interaction with the horse and how quickly they mastered it compared to other tribes that had horses much longer.

It is a historical novel. I don't know how closely it follows actual history. It is a fun read. 

Blakely has several other books dealing with the south west in the era of European expansion, and latter American expansion into the region.

Edited November 25, 2022 by 17thfabn

[Rick]

"Fusiliers" by Mark Urban. Although I'm not knowledgeable about the Revolutionary War, Mr Urban's book seems well-researched and a pleasure to read while learning new information along the way.  

[Rick]

"Unimaginable, What Our World Would be Like Without Christianity" by Dr. Jeremiah Johnston. Be glad if you live in a Christian influenced nation and not secular "moralists and philosophers!"  

[BansheeOne]

Strictly moral considerations aside, that would make a pretty good What If actually.

[Ssnake]

Speaking of which, "What if 2" by Randall Munroe is out.

[Rick]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:50 AM, BansheeOne said:

Strictly moral considerations aside, that would make a pretty good What If actually.

Short answer is North Korea. 

[BansheeOne]

Over a space of 2,000 years, it's hard to predict evolution of religious-political-societal relations. There are some obvious effects in the near-to-mid-term: Without Christianity, no persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire before Constantine, and of non-Christians and Christian sectarians after Theodosius; no intra-Christian strife and religious wars, no crusades and missionary conquests - though I'm sure people would find alternate reasons to kill and conquer. No Christian influence on other religions either, chiefly Islam; we can't know if other new religions would emerge, or Europe and adjacent regions would just remain stuck in classic pagan multitude.

What we can assume is that without the Constantinian Shift, the Roman Empire will not return to temporary unitary rule, and possibly break up earlier. With a lack of common religion, Europe may be more divided and war-torn - but then again, see absence of intra-Christian strife and religious wars above. With no Christian influence on the establishment of Islam, the latter may not emerge to be a threat, or something else, possibly even tougher and more warlike may take its place; but we're really getting into the realm of imagination here.

I'll open a separate thread in the Military History forum about this, since any further discussion is probably ill-placed here.

[Rick]

Is "Achtung Panzer" a good and/or accurate book?

[Ssnake]

Well, it depends on what you're looking for. I have Guderian's "Die Panzerwaffe" (1943) which, I believe, is the extended new edition of "Achtung - Panzer!" (1937). So, not exactly the same, but maybe my opinion is still of some value to you.

It's, in a way, an essential primary source if you will. In some sense it is a bit dry and technical, but this must be seen in the context of a General trying to sell his novel doctrinal concept to a skeptical audience (at least in 1937 it was not yet vindicated by operational successes), and then maybe also as some sort of a textbook for junior Panzer officers or people with little know-how abvout the matter (but tasked to command armored units). So, there's a lot of recurrence to WW1 use of tanks by the western allies.

I think it will contain very little that you haven't heard or read elsewhere about the concept of "combined arms", of independent operations of massed armored formations. At the same time it's one of the earliest books that were published about the matter outside of military memoranda, so it may have some value. Other books of the period would be Rommel's "Panzer greifen an", or Ludwig von Eimannsberger's "Der Kampfwagenkrieg" (1934).

It is of interest to see the armored doctrine to emerge at this time period because it was, well, just an idea at the time (maybe a bit more, thinking of the 1935 exercise in Munster where the Op Order contained a secret part that had the units scramble for a new objective after the official end of the exercise, to demonstrate that they could quickly respond to new orders rather than just execute a well-rehearsed elaborate drill).

[Rick]

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Well, it depends on what you're looking for. I have Guderian's "Die Panzerwaffe" (1943) which, I believe, is the extended new edition of "Achtung - Panzer!" (1937). So, not exactly the same, but maybe my opinion is still of some value to you.

It's, in a way, an essential primary source if you will. In some sense it is a bit dry and technical, but this must be seen in the context of a General trying to sell his novel doctrinal concept to a skeptical audience (at least in 1937 it was not yet vindicated by operational successes), and then maybe also as some sort of a textbook for junior Panzer officers or people with little know-how abvout the matter (but tasked to command armored units). So, there's a lot of recurrence to WW1 use of tanks by the western allies.

I think it will contain very little that you haven't heard or read elsewhere about the concept of "combined arms", of independent operations of massed armored formations. At the same time it's one of the earliest books that were published about the matter outside of military memoranda, so it may have some value. Other books of the period would be Rommel's "Panzer greifen an", or Ludwig von Eimannsberger's "Der Kampfwagenkrieg" (1934).

It is of interest to see the armored doctrine to emerge at this time period because it was, well, just an idea at the time (maybe a bit more, thinking of the 1935 exercise in Munster where the Op Order contained a secret part that had the units scramble for a new objective after the official end of the exercise, to demonstrate that they could quickly respond to new orders rather than just execute a well-rehearsed elaborate drill).

Thank you.

[Rick]

Robert Lyman's "A War of Empires"  A good read of the mostly Indian 14th Army under General William Slim defeat of the Japanese in Burma. Imo, one the best British Generals.

[Rick]

"A Sailor from Oklahoma" by Floyd Beaver. A good read of a Depression area kid in the pre-W.W.2 Navy to 1944.

"Royal Tars" by Brian Lavery. The tale of the Royal Navy's basic sailors from basically day 1 to the mid 18th Century.

"World of Trouble" by Richard Godbeer. The author's last name alone should make it a good book 🍻 Diary of Quaker Mrs Drinker during the American Revolutionary War. Some parts sound like the B.L.M. idiots today.

"A Life Wild and Perilous" Mountain Men and the Paths to the Pacific. A book of men doing great deeds in dangerous times.  

[NickM]

Two books by Al Venter (an SA journalist, writer and contributor to 'Soldier of Fortune' Magazine, for what that's worth) I got about the

Portugal's Bush War in Mozambique

The Battle for Angola

 

The one on Mozambique had a nice 'canned' history about Portugal in East Africa and sort of how they tried to control the FRELIMO insurgency--but also too much about the Rhodesian' and South Africans' involvement in helping fight the guerillas as part of controlling their own border war (though I DID find the Portuguese officer corps reaction to Rhodesian tactics--"YOU LIVE IN THE BUSH LIKE SAVAGES? AND RUN AROUND IN YOUR SHORTS? UNTHINKABLE) both amusing and very 'telling'. 

There was a nice bit about the new DAESH war in North Mozambique, that I found interesting.

The Angola also has a canned history of Portugal in Africa/West Africa/Angola since the 1500s; some 'stuff' on the insurgency and Portugal's trying to 'cope'.  Then it goes into decent detail on the 'machinations' of the leftist officers' coup that ditched Caetano and quite a bit on the rush to get MPLA into Luanda, and thence into the urban bureaucracy. A surprisingly small amount about the war itself, and more about The RSA's involvement in the war and some of the battles they (the South Africans and their proxies) fought. A whole lot on Executive Outcomes battles to take control of rebel controlled diamond fields in Eastern Angola, but virtually nothing about the fighting UNITA carried out during the Civil War, which I found surprising, given the book's title was 'Battle for Angola'. It was almost like somebody just threw together a bunch of articles together and called it a book.

Edited February 26, 2023 by NickM

[Walter_Sobchak]

I picked up this somewhat random assortment while at John King Used Books in Detroit yesterday.  

[Sardaukar]

If interested in Ancient Roman times, this is really good book:

https://www.amazon.com/Gladius-Living-Fighting-Dying-Roman/dp/1408712407

Gladius: Living, Fighting and Dying in the Roman Army

[Rick]

"The Forgotten Fleet" by John Winton. The British Pacific Fleet of 1944-45. The R.N. muddled through magnificently. 

[Mike1158]

Battlegroup, interesting to see what, if anything, was learned from towing bloody great yellow clouds across the SLTA in the 70's and 80's.

About to starrt the Culture series of books by  Ian M Banks.

 

 

[TrustMe]

2 hours ago, Mike1158 said:

Battlegroup, interesting to see what, if anything, was learned from towing bloody great yellow clouds across the SLTA in the 70's and 80's.

About to starrt the Culture series of books by  Ian M Banks.

 

 

The Culture's first couple of books are outstanding then they went a bit bad and i've never read his last two books. "Use of Weapons" is my favourite. 

The one thing that really pisses me off about Iain Banks books is that his character names are so unpronounceable to the point were reading his works is painful to me.

[Mike1158]

To an extent, many SF books/films have this issue, the Muppet, sorry, LOTR's series for example.  I must admit to saying in my mind "Bleuch" or similar when it comes to pronunciation of these names.