naval warfare 3rd WW, battle for the Mediterranean (Cold war period)

[Jaroslav]

@RETAC21 do you know were Lazaga class was based during 80s and could / would they be used for amphibious assault support (for shore bombardment, troop support)

[RETAC21]

2 hours ago, Jaroslav said:

@RETAC21 do you know were Lazaga class was based during 80s and could / would they be used for amphibious assault support (for shore bombardment, troop support)

They were deployed in pairs to the North, South and Med, used as gunboats and fisheries patrol boats. They were victims of a sudden tightening of the budgets so they "lost" one engine and never carried missiles with the end result that they were top heavy and unsuited to the conditions of the Biscay Bay and the Atlantic (my father in law commanded Bonifaz and he remember it swinging around like a pendulum in any kind of sea, with half the crew seasick)

It's not likely they would be part of an amphibious landing as their firepower was quite limited despite having top notch (for the time) electronics.

Alsedo was fitted for Electronic reconnaissance, which led to an embarrasing episode when she had to put in an Algerian port due to weather, bad copy to take refuge on the port of the people you are spying on.

[Jaroslav]

12 minutes ago, RETAC21 said:

They were deployed in pairs to the North, South and Med, used as gunboats and fisheries patrol boats. They were victims of a sudden tightening of the budgets so they "lost" one engine and never carried missiles with the end result that they were top heavy and unsuited to the conditions of the Biscay Bay and the Atlantic (my father in law commanded Bonifaz and he remember it swinging around like a pendulum in any kind of sea, with half the crew seasick)

It's not likely they would be part of an amphibious landing as their firepower was quite limited despite having top notch (for the time) electronics.

Alsedo was fitted for Electronic reconnaissance, which led to an embarrasing episode when she had to put in an Algerian port due to weather, bad copy to take refuge on the port of the people you are spying on.

Ok, tnx 

[Jaroslav]

Portugese forces:

 

2,700 Marines
2,300 Paratroopers

 

Corpo de Tropas Para-quedistas – Tancos (Light Parachute Brigade, Controlled by the Air Force):
a. 11. Para Battalion: 3 companies, each: 9 rifle squads, 3 60mm IMI mortars, 6 Carl Gustav ATGL each
b. 21. Para Battalion: same as above
c. 31. Para Battalion: same as above
d. AT Company: 12 Milan in 1989/90
e. Heavy Mortar Company: 6 120mm Tampella Mortars, some 81mm mortars
f. Recon Company: 3 platoons w/light vehicles
Note: Light Parachute Brigade not organized as such during peace time, but probably with the capability of became one in war time. One battalion acted as a training unit and held less equipment. It is possible 
that the training battalion was a separate organization not listed above.

 

Fuzilerios Navais Regiment – Lisbon: 3 Battalions (Marines, controlled by the Navy)
a. 1st Battalion: HQs and 3 infantry companies, each with 60 mm mortars, Carl Gustav ATGL

b. 2nd Battalion: as above
c. 3rd Battalion: as above
d. 1 Mortar support unit: 81 mm and 120 mm mortars
e, 1 Weapons support unit: 12.7 mm MGs, 90 mm and 106 mm recoilless rifles
f. 1 Transport Support Unit: Motorized vehicles available to the inf bns
g. 1 Amphibious Assault Support Unit: Amphibious vehicles (LARCs) and pneumatic assault boats to support amphibious landings
Note: one bn acting as a training unit (with less equipment), another as a Naval Police unit (with no heavy weapons, to guard naval installations) and only one as a regular naval infantry bn.

 

NAVY:  incl 2,800 marines 

3 comd: Continental, Azores, Madeira.
BASES: Lisbon (Alfeite), Portimao (HQ Continental comd), Punta Delgado (HQ Azores), Funchal (HQ Madeira).
SUBMARINES: 3 Albacora (Fr Daphne) SS with EL-5HWT.
FRIGATES: 14:
   4 Commandante Joao Belo (Fr Cdt Riviere) with 2x3 ASTT, 1x4 ASW mor, plus 3 100mm gun.
   4 Baptista de Andrade with 2x3 ASTT; plus 1 100mm gun.
   6 Joao Coutinho.
PATROL AND COASTAL COMBATANTS: 21:
PATROL COASTAL: 14: 10 Cacine, 4 Sao Rogue ex-MSC.
INSHORE: 7<.
AMPHIBIOUS: Craft only, 3 LCU, 3 LCM
SUPPORT AND MISCELLANEOUS: 5: 1 AOR, 1 AK, 1 AGHS, 1 trg, 1 tug.

MARINES: (2,800) (1,400 conscripts).
   3 bn (2 inf, 1 police), spt units.
EQUIPMENT: Chaimite APC, mor, 7 LCM.

 

Air force:

51st Air Group – Monte Real:
a. No. 302 Fighter-Bomber Squadron: 20 A-7P, 3 TA-7P
b. No. 304 Fighter-Bomber Squadron: 20 A-7P, 3 TA-7P

12th Air Group
a. No. 401 Reconnaissance Squadron (Esquadra): 4 C.212 Aviocar

31st Air Group
a. No. 502 Transport Squadron: 11 C.212 Aviocar
b. No. 552 Helicopter Squadron: 25 Alouette III
c. No. 111 Helicopter Squadron: C.212 Aviocar, 6 Alouette III

61st Air Group – Monijo:

No. 501 Transport Squadron: 5 C-130 Hercules.

 

The entire fleet would not be used. What is underlined would be used. I'm not sure about submarines, but they seem more useful to me in the Mediterranean than in the Atlantic. I'm not sure about aviation, but because of the range, from Italy to Crete, only the A-7 seems usable to me.

Feel free to write suggestions and critiques.

 

Data is from Johnson / Callahan NATO OOB 1989. V8.6 and Military balance 1989./90.

Edited July 23 by Jaroslav

[RETAC21]

6 hours ago, Jaroslav said:

Portugese forces:

 

2,700 Marines
2,300 Paratroopers

 

Corpo de Tropas Para-quedistas – Tancos (Light Parachute Brigade, Controlled by the Air Force):
a. 11. Para Battalion: 3 companies, each: 9 rifle squads, 3 60mm IMI mortars, 6 Carl Gustav ATGL each
b. 21. Para Battalion: same as above
c. 31. Para Battalion: same as above
d. AT Company: 12 Milan in 1989/90
e. Heavy Mortar Company: 6 120mm Tampella Mortars, some 81mm mortars
f. Recon Company: 3 platoons w/light vehicles
Note: Light Parachute Brigade not organized as such during peace time, but probably with the capability of became one in war time. One battalion acted as a training unit and held less equipment. It is possible 
that the training battalion was a separate organization not listed above.

 

Fuzilerios Navais Regiment – Lisbon: 3 Battalions (Marines, controlled by the Navy)
a. 1st Battalion: HQs and 3 infantry companies, each with 60 mm mortars, Carl Gustav ATGL

b. 2nd Battalion: as above
c. 3rd Battalion: as above
d. 1 Mortar support unit: 81 mm and 120 mm mortars
e, 1 Weapons support unit: 12.7 mm MGs, 90 mm and 106 mm recoilless rifles
f. 1 Transport Support Unit: Motorized vehicles available to the inf bns
g. 1 Amphibious Assault Support Unit: Amphibious vehicles (LARCs) and pneumatic assault boats to support amphibious landings
Note: one bn acting as a training unit (with less equipment), another as a Naval Police unit (with no heavy weapons, to guard naval installations) and only one as a regular naval infantry bn.

 

NAVY:  incl 2,800 marines 

3 comd: Continental, Azores, Madeira.
BASES: Lisbon (Alfeite), Portimao (HQ Continental comd), Punta Delgado (HQ Azores), Funchal (HQ Madeira).
SUBMARINES: 3 Albacora (Fr Daphne) SS with EL-5HWT.
FRIGATES: 14:
   4 Commandante Joao Belo (Fr Cdt Riviere) with 2x3 ASTT, 1x4 ASW mor, plus 3 100mm gun.
   4 Baptista de Andrade with 2x3 ASTT; plus 1 100mm gun.
   6 Joao Coutinho.
PATROL AND COASTAL COMBATANTS: 21:
PATROL COASTAL: 14: 10 Cacine, 4 Sao Rogue ex-MSC.
INSHORE: 7<.
AMPHIBIOUS: Craft only, 3 LCU, 3 LCM
SUPPORT AND MISCELLANEOUS: 5: 1 AOR, 1 AK, 1 AGHS, 1 trg, 1 tug.

MARINES: (2,800) (1,400 conscripts).
   3 bn (2 inf, 1 police), spt units.
EQUIPMENT: Chaimite APC, mor, 7 LCM.

 

Air force:

51st Air Group – Monte Real:
a. No. 302 Fighter-Bomber Squadron: 20 A-7P, 3 TA-7P
b. No. 304 Fighter-Bomber Squadron: 20 A-7P, 3 TA-7P

12th Air Group
a. No. 401 Reconnaissance Squadron (Esquadra): 4 C.212 Aviocar

31st Air Group
a. No. 502 Transport Squadron: 11 C.212 Aviocar
b. No. 552 Helicopter Squadron: 25 Alouette III
c. No. 111 Helicopter Squadron: C.212 Aviocar, 6 Alouette III

61st Air Group – Monijo:

No. 501 Transport Squadron: 5 C-130 Hercules.

 

The entire fleet would not be used. What is underlined would be used. I'm not sure about submarines, but they seem more useful to me in the Mediterranean than in the Atlantic. I'm not sure about aviation, but because of the range, from Italy to Crete, only the A-7 seems usable to me.

Feel free to write suggestions and critiques.

 

Data is from Johnson / Callahan NATO OOB 1989. V8.6 and Military balance 1989./90.

Portuguese navy/air force area of responsibilty was IBERLANT, so the subs were likely to be used around the Gibraltar strait to counter Soviet subs

[Jaroslav]

@RETAC21 were would be used Spanish subs? In my scenario they are used in Med

[RETAC21]

9 minutes ago, Jaroslav said:

@RETAC21 were would be used Spanish subs? In my scenario they are used in Med

Indeed, but the Spanish navy practised on  a yearly basis an exercise called "Tapon" (Plug) to maintain control of the seas around Gibraltar. The axis of responsibility was the Canaries-Strait-Balearics and subs had been deployed off Morocco in 1975.

 

 

[Jaroslav]

37 minutes ago, RETAC21 said:

Indeed, but the Spanish navy practised on  a yearly basis an exercise called "Tapon" (Plug) to maintain control of the seas around Gibraltar. The axis of responsibility was the Canaries-Strait-Balearics and subs had been deployed off Morocco in 1975.

 

 

Ok, then I have to remove Portugese and Spanish subs from eastern Med scenario. Do you know were would French and Italian subs be

[RETAC21]

6 minutes ago, Jaroslav said:

Ok, then I have to remove Portugese and Spanish subs from eastern Med scenario. Do you know were would French and Italian subs be

Ah, that is a very good question.

For the French, the Agostas traveled a bit:

Initially assigned to ESMED (Mediterranean Submarine Squadron) in Toulon, they joined ESMAT (Atlantic Submarine Squadron) in Lorient in the mid-1980s. They remained there until its disbandment and then joined GESMAT (Atlantic Attack Submarine Group) at the Brest Submarine Base upon its creation in 1995.

Designed for long-distance missions, they have been deployed to various locations around the globe, including the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the China Sea, and the Indian Ocean. During their twenty years of service, they have had the opportunity to participate in international exercises and conduct numerous patrols.

The Daphnés:

 Of the 11 vessels, two were assigned to the Atlantic Submarine Squadron at the Keroman base in Lorient: the Psyche and the Siren. The other nine were in service with the Mediterranean Submarine Squadron in Toulon. They were in active service between 1964 and 1997. In 1968 and 1970, two submarines, the Minerve and the Eurydice, disappeared in the Mediterranean. Only the Eurydice was ever located.

The Rubis

They were based at Toulon, but sailed far and wide, Rubis was the first French nuclear submarine to circumnavigate the Pacific in 1985, its first major operational mission was participation in the Gulf War in 1991. In 2002, the Rubis carried out a mission to protect Task Force 473 in the Indian Ocean during Operation Héraclès, the fight against terrorist networks off the coast of Afghanistan. During Operation Harmattan in 2011 off the coast of Libya, the Rubis was one of three SSNs that took turns on intelligence missions during the conflict. 

[Jaroslav]

10 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Ah, that is a very good question.

For the French, the Agostas traveled a bit:

Initially assigned to ESMED (Mediterranean Submarine Squadron) in Toulon, they joined ESMAT (Atlantic Submarine Squadron) in Lorient in the mid-1980s. They remained there until its disbandment and then joined GESMAT (Atlantic Attack Submarine Group) at the Brest Submarine Base upon its creation in 1995.

Designed for long-distance missions, they have been deployed to various locations around the globe, including the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the China Sea, and the Indian Ocean. During their twenty years of service, they have had the opportunity to participate in international exercises and conduct numerous patrols.

The Daphnés:

 Of the 11 vessels, two were assigned to the Atlantic Submarine Squadron at the Keroman base in Lorient: the Psyche and the Siren. The other nine were in service with the Mediterranean Submarine Squadron in Toulon. They were in active service between 1964 and 1997. In 1968 and 1970, two submarines, the Minerve and the Eurydice, disappeared in the Mediterranean. Only the Eurydice was ever located.

The Rubis

They were based at Toulon, but sailed far and wide, Rubis was the first French nuclear submarine to circumnavigate the Pacific in 1985, its first major operational mission was participation in the Gulf War in 1991. In 2002, the Rubis carried out a mission to protect Task Force 473 in the Indian Ocean during Operation Héraclès, the fight against terrorist networks off the coast of Afghanistan. During Operation Harmattan in 2011 off the coast of Libya, the Rubis was one of three SSNs that took turns on intelligence missions during the conflict. 

Ok, then revision in scenario. French Rubis would be used offensive in east Med while four Daphne class subs would patrol in west Med French AOR, alongside six A-69 class frigates. 

Spanish four Daphne class subs would be used to patrol west Med Spanish AOR and Gibraltar strait alongside with six Descubierta, Gibraltar strait would be covered with five Baleares class and maybe Dedalo, Biscay bay would be covered by four Gearing class, Azores would be covered with mix (probably) of Baleares, Gearing's and Agosta class subs. Also, Agosta class could be used offensively in east Med alongside with Principe carrier and Santa Maria class.

Portugese navy would be used as mentioned but with Daphne class patroling west aproach of Gibraltar strait.

Do you agree?

Edited July 24 by Jaroslav

[RETAC21]

10 hours ago, Jaroslav said:

Ok, then revision in scenario. French Rubis would be used offensive in east Med while four Daphne class subs would patrol in west Med French AOR, alongside six A-69 class frigates. 

Spanish four Daphne class subs would be used to patrol west Med Spanish AOR and Gibraltar strait alongside with six Descubierta, Gibraltar strait would be covered with five Baleares class and maybe Dedalo, Biscay bay would be covered by four Gearing class, Azores would be covered with mix (probably) of Baleares, Gearing's and Agosta class subs. Also, Agosta class could be used offensively in east Med alongside with Principe carrier and Santa Maria class.

Portugese navy would be used as mentioned but with Daphne class patroling west aproach of Gibraltar strait.

Do you agree?

Yep, sounds about right. You can add a RN or a Dutch submarine, as there seemed to be one or the other doing intelligence work in the Med

[Jaroslav]

2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Yep, sounds about right. You can add a RN or a Dutch submarine, as there seemed to be one or the other doing intelligence work in the Med

In all out war with WP, in my opinion Dutch and RN would be used in Atlantic. Same is with Soviet navy, i dont belive that they would send in Med new naval reinforcements, they would use only forces which were already in Med (5th flotila) and Black sea fleet. Just like US navy.

Atleast for the begining of war but after that everything is possible.

[RETAC21]

12 minutes ago, Jaroslav said:

In all out war with WP, in my opinion Dutch and RN would be used in Atlantic. Same is with Soviet navy, i dont belive that they would send in Med new naval reinforcements, they would use only forces which were already in Med (5th flotila) and Black sea fleet. Just like US navy.

Atleast for the begining of war but after that everything is possible.

Yes, unless already there, it seems that during the 80s one of either was in the Med continuously

[Jaroslav]

Brief History of the NRP "Albacora" The NRP "ALBACORA," "S163," "CTSD," or "SUBCORA," is the submarine that designates its class. It was incorporated into the Navy's fleet on October 1, 1967, as the first of the 4th Squadron. Designed for short-cruise coastal and oceanic areas, its primary function would be to patrol areas with a high probability of surface forces passing through that might pose a threat, or coastal areas of potential surveillance interest, using special operations teams to conduct reconnaissance or rescue operations in these areas. It was built by the Dubigeon-Normandie Shipyards in Nantes, based on the plans for the French "Daphne"-class submarines. The entry of this class of submarines into our Navy represented, at the time, a significant improvement in deterrence and intervention capabilities in the absence of supremacy, given the considerable increase in autonomy and discretion. The honors of first Commander were granted to Lieutenant Commander Rui Silvino dos Santos Teixeira Chaves (October 1, 1967 - March 25, 1970). After this command, eighteen Commanders served this submarine, who brought prestige to the Navy by developing national and international, joint, and combined missions, which were significantly important in recognizing the professionalism and efficiency of Portuguese submariners. In 1972, regular participation in NATO exercises began, with the "Subcora" engaging in JMC 721 in the waters off northern Scotland. Since then, it has expanded its participation in multiple exercises in response to various requests within the scope of operational training from our and other allied navies. These operations took place in areas with diverse oceanographic and meteorological environments, ranging from the Mediterranean to the North Sea, with a natural focus on the Atlantic waters, within our inter-territorial space (the so-called strategic triangle), which is, by definition, the preferred area of operation for our submarines. In this context, the following participations are noteworthy: Exercises from the JMC series (5); the TAPON series (5); the SWORD FISH series (8); the CONTEX series (16); the LINKED SEAS/OCEAN SAFARI series (4); the OPEN GATE/LOCKED GATE series (5); the JOLLY ROGER series (2); the ESPADARTE/ALBATROZ series (3); and the LUSÍADA series (2). During this array of national and international exercises, as well as on many other occasions, "Subcora" performed diverse tasks within the framework of the missions assigned to submarines of this class, including: assisting in the protection of ocean navigation in waters of national interest; assisting in the protection of coastal navigation; patrolling focal areas; conducting ASW and ASUW operations; participating in combined and joint exercises; patrolling territorial waters; conducting reconnaissance operations with landing and collection of special groups in actions requiring stealth and surprise; assisting in the defense of national interests; and carrying out Naval Representation and Presence actions. The professionalism of its crews, essentially translated by a spirit of sacrifice and persistent determination to achieve good results in the fulfillment of missions, has been evident in their constant pursuit of participation in the training, sponsored by FOST (Flag Operational Sea Training), which is a training ground for the Royal Navy and attended by several other allied navies, simulating operations in a crisis scenario. Portuguese submarines have been participating regularly (once or twice a year) since 1991, demonstrating considerable experience and confidence in maneuvering in waters with high fishing intensity, shallow waters, strong currents, and a high concentration of sunken vessels. A prime example of this is certainly the performance of the "Albacora," which has participated in this type of exercise six times, the last of which occurred in January and February of this year. Today, 33 years after its entry into service, with nearly 40,000 navigation hours and 26,500 submersion hours, the "Albacora" ends its operational life, already significantly outdated in terms of sensors and acoustic detection systems, fire control, and weapons systems. Without these, its credibility begins to be questioned when it comes to competing with the performance of modern ASW escorts, maritime patrol aircraft, and other submarines, which already benefit from the latest technological advancements. Being a system of little visible nature and function, the submarine weapon is undoubtedly a prominent component of any Naval Power. Today, when defining the necessary naval resources, it is necessary to consider the current situation, characterized by uncertain scenarios, where the key is above all to be as flexible and comprehensive as possible, prioritizing resources that, due to their versatility,  Strength, versatility, mobility, and endurance allow for a better response to this range of situations. With these attributes, the submarine is certainly a weapon worth preserving. Spectacular submarine actions, in actual warfare, have been extremely rare since World War II, the last known case being the torpedoing of the Argentine cruiser "Belgrano" by a British nuclear submarine during the Falklands conflict in 1982. However, their stealth, endurance, surprise, ease of movement in hostile environments, and ability to perform almost all peace enforcement, conflict management, and war missions assigned to navies make the submarine weapon essential as an equalizer of forces, a deterrent, and an instrument of political pressure. The Albacora sought to be all of this, both in its time and beyond; now it must give way to newcomers, without forgetting the past and its historical contribution. (Collaboration of the Commander and Officers of the N.R.P. "Albacora")     Breve historial do NRP " Albacora "

O NRP "ALBACORA", "S163", "CTSD" ou "SUBCORA", é o Submarino que designa a sua classe, tendo sido incorporado no efectivo dos navios da Armada em 01 de Outubro de 1967, como o primeiro da 4ª Esquadrilha. Concebido com vista à optimização para zonas costeiras e oceânicas de pequeno cruzeiro, em que a sua principal função seria o patrulhamento de áreas com alta probabilidade de passagem de forças de superfície que representassem

uma ameaça, ou de zonas costeiras de potencial interesse para a vigilância, com utilização de equipas de operações especiais para desenvolver acções de reconhecimento ou resgate nessas zonas. Foi construído pelos Estaleiros Dubigeon-Normandie, em Nantes, de acordo com os planos dos submarinos franceses da classe "Daphne". O ingresso desta classe de Submarinos na nossa Armada significou na altura, uma

importante melhoria na capacidade dissuasora e de intervenção na ausência de supremacia, face ao considerável incremento em termos de autonomia e discrição. As honras de primeiro Comandante foram concedidas ao Capitão-Tenente Rui Silvino dos Santos Teixeira Chaves (01 Out 67 - 25 Mar 70). Após este Comando passaram por este Submarino dezoito Comandantes que souberam prestigiar a Armada desenvolvendo missões Nacionais e Internacionais, conjuntas e combinadas, que tiveram significativa relevância no reconhecimento do profissionalismo e eficiência dos Submarinistas Portugueses. Em 1972 tem início a participação regular em exercícios do âmbito da NATO, com empenhamento do "Subcora" no JMC 721, nas águas do norte da Escócia. Desde então estendeu a sua participação a múltiplos exercícios em resposta a diversas solicitações no âmbito do Treino operacional da nossa e de outras Marinhas aliadas. Estas operações decorreram em áreas de diferentes ambientes oceanográficos e meteorológicos, variando desde as águas do Mediterrâneo até às águas do Mar do Norte, privilegiando naturalmente as águas do Atlântico, no nosso espaço interterritorial (o designado triângulo estratégico), que é por definição a área de actuação preferencial dos nossos submarinos. Neste âmbito podem-se destacar as seguintes participações: Exercícios da série JMC (5 ); da série TAPON (5); da série SWORD FISH (8); da série CONTEX (16); da série LINKED SEAS/OCEAN SAFARI (4); da série OPEN GATE/LOCKED GATE (5); da série JOLLY ROGER (2); da série ESPADARTE/ALBATROZ (3) e da série LUSÍADA (2). No decurso desta panóplia de exercícios nacionais e internacionais, bem como em muitas outras ocasiões desenvolveu o "Subcora" tarefas de diversa natureza no enquadramento das missões atribuídas aos submarinos desta classe, das quais se podem mencionar as seguintes: colaborar na protecção da navegação oceânica em águas de interesse Nacional; colaborar na protecção da navegação costeira; patrulha de áreas focais; condução de operações ASW e ASUW; participação em exercícios combinados e conjuntos; patrulha do Mar territorial; efectuar operações de reconhecimento com desembarque e recolha de grupos especiais em acções que requerem sigilo e surpresa; colaborar na defesa dos interesses nacionais; efectuar acções de Representação e Presença Naval. O profissionalismo das suas guarnições, traduzido na sua essência por um espírito de sacrifício e persistente vontade em atingir bons resultados no cumprimento das missões, tem sido patente pela constante procura da sua participação no Treino, patrocinado pelo FOST (Flag Operational Sea Training) que faz escola na Royal Navy e é frequentado por diversas outras Marinhas aliadas, simulando condução de operações em cenário de crise. A participação regular (1 ou 2 vezes por ano) dos submarinos portugueses tem vindo a ocorrer desde 1991, evidenciando já uma considerável experiência e confiança na manobra em águas de grande intensidade piscatória, com fundos baixos, fortes correntes e de grande concentração de navios afundados. Exemplo disto é com certeza o desempenho do "Albacora", que somou 6 participações neste tipo de exercícios, tendo a última ocorrido em Janeiro e Fevereiro do presente ano. Hoje, passados 33 anos da sua entrada ao serviço, com quase 40.000 horas de Navegação e 26.500 de Imersão, o "Albacora" termina a sua vida operacional, já muito ultrapassado no que respeita a Sensores e Sistemas de detecção acústica, Direcção de tiro e Sistemas de armas. Sem estes, a sua credibilidade começa a estar em causa para fazer frente às performances dos modernos Escoltas ASW, Aéreos de patrulha marítima e de outros Submarinos os quais usufruem já das mais recentes evoluções da técnica. Tratando-se de um sistema de natureza e função pouco visível, a Arma submarina, é sem dúvida uma componente destacada de qualquer Poder Naval. Hoje ao definir os meios navais necessários, há que pensar na situação presente, caracterizada pela incerteza de cenários, onde o que interessa é sobretudo ser tão flexível e abrangente quanto possível, privilegiando meios que pela sua polivalência, versatilidade, mobilidade e "endurance", permitam melhor capacidade de resposta a essa panóplia de situações. Detentor destes atributos o Submarino é certamente uma Arma a manter. As acções espectaculares de Submarinos, em sede propriamente bélica, são raríssimas desde a 2ª GM, sendo o último caso conhecido o do torpedeamento do Cruzador argentino "Belgrano" por um submarino nuclear britânico, durante o conflito das Falkland em 1982. No entanto, a sua furtividade, resistência, surpresa, facilidade de movimentação em ambientes hostis e a capacidade para o desempenho de quase todas as missões de imposição da paz, de gestão de conflitos e de guerra, consignadas às Marinhas, tornam a Arma submarina essencial, como equalizador de forças, elemento dissuasor e instrumento político de pressão. Tudo isto o "Albacora" procurou ser, no seu tempo e fora dele, agora há que dar o lugar aos novos, sem esquecer o passado e o seu contributo histórico. ( Colaboração do Comandante e Oficiais do N.R.P. "Albacora") https://web.archive.org/web/20050317235648/http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_out2000/pag8.html

[Jaroslav]

@RETAC21 do you know where would be used Spanish P-3 Orions

[RETAC21]

19 hours ago, Jaroslav said:

@RETAC21 do you know where would be used Spanish P-3 Orions

Gibraltar, mostly. The Albatros also deployed to Gando (Canaries) and Son San Juan (Majorca) but I can't find any reference to the Orions doing that.

[Jaroslav]

National zones of ASW patrol area (defense phase):

1. Portuguese navy

Western approach to Gibraltar strait. 3 Albacora (Daphne) class submarines.

2. Spanish navy

- Gibraltar strait zone (E and W from strait). 5 Baleares class frigates, maybe Dedalo carrier, maybe Delfin class submarines, Spanish P-3.

- Mediterranean zone (E from Gibraltar zone to south cape of Mallorca). 6 Descubierta class frigates, 4 Delfin (Daphne) class submarines, maybe Spanish P-3.

2. French navy

- south cape of Mallorca to south cape of Sardinia. 6 A-69 class frigates, 4 Daphne class submarines, 12 Br 1150.

3. Italian navy

- south cape of Sardinia to closest Tunisian territorial waters. 1 Maestrale, 2 Lupo class frigates, Br 1150.

- south cape of Sardinia to western cape of Sicilia. 1 Maestrale, 2 Alpino and 2 Lupo class frigates, Br 1150.

- SW cape of Sicilia to closest Tunisian territorial waters. 2 Maestrale class frigates, Br 1150.

- Messina strait. 4 Minerva class corvettes.

- Syracuze to Corfu. 4 Maestrale class frigates, 4 De Cristofaro class corvettes and 3 Toti class submarines.

- Otrant strait. 2 Albatros class corvettes and 1 Toti class submarines.

4. US 6th fleet

- Tunisia - Sicily - Malta area, ships and P-3 aircrafts.

Size of patrol "box" of individual ship / submarine / aircraft depends on size of specific zone and number of available ships, submarines and aircrafts.

Edited July 30 by Jaroslav

[Jaroslav]

@RETAC21 and @sunday do you know wich port is this

Spanish corvette Nautilus (PA 64) leaving port, in 1985.

[Jaroslav]

Italian Br-1150

Two units operated the type within the Italian Air Force (each being assigned 9 aircraft): the 41° Stormo (Wing), with its 88° Gruppo (Squadron) at Sigonella, and the 30° Stormo with its 86° Gruppo at Cagliari Elmas.

Throughout its career, the Atlantic flown by mixed Air Force/Navy crew of 13 people in missions lasting up to 12 hours (actually the record of the Italian BR-1150 is 19 hours and 20 minutes!), carried out thousand Maritime Patrol, ASW and ASuW (Anti-Surface Warfare – limited to the reconnaissance and surveillance part since the aircraft was not equipped with ASuW weapons) sorties as well as Maritime SAR (Search And Rescue) operations taking part also in hundreds exercises.

https://theaviationist.com/2017/11/24/the-italian-br-1150-atlantic-has-completed-its-last-flight-ending-an-impressive-45-year-career/

[Jaroslav]

Spanish Navy (Armada) - 1975-1989 - Late Cold War

The primary mission of the Spanish navy was to help maintain sea control in three key areas: the Mediterranean west of the Balearic and Alboran Islands, the Straits of Gibraltar, and the Atlantic between Spain and the Canary Islands.

Operational naval units were classified by mission, and they were assigned to the combat forces, the protective forces, or the auxiliary forces. The combat forces were given the tasks of conducting offensive and defensive operations against potential enemies and of assuring maritime communications. Their principal vessels included a carrier group, naval aircraft, transports and landing vessels, submarines, and missile-armed fast attack craft.

The protective forces had the mission of protecting maritime communications over both ocean and coastal routes and the approaches to ports and to maritime terminals. Their principal components were destroyers or frigates, corvettes, and minesweepers as well as marine units for the defense of naval installations. The auxiliary forces, responsible for transport and for provisioning at sea, also had such diverse tasks as coast guard operations, scientific work, and maintenance of training vessels. In addition to supply ships and a tanker, the force included older destroyers and a considerable number of patrol craft.

The Fleet Command (headqartered at El Ferrol) includes aircraft carrier forces, and flotillas of escort ships and amphibious forces. A flotilla of submarines, consisting of two divisions, was under the Submarine Force Commander (Cartegena Naval Base), while the Mine Force Command (also at Cartegena) was represented by a flotilla of mine forces (two divisions). Subordinate to the commander in chief of the fleet, with his headquarters in Madrid, were four zonal commands: the Cantabrian Maritime Zone with its headquarters at El Ferrol del Caudillo (Ferrol) on the Atlantic coast; the Straits Maritime Zone with its headquarters at San Fernando near Cadiz; the Mediterranean Maritime Zone with its headquarters at Cartagena; and the Canary Islands Maritime Zone with its headquarters at Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.

The fleet of eight submarines was built, based on French designs, with extensive French assistance. Four submarines of the Agosta class were constructed in Spain between 1983 and 1985. They were equipped with the submarine-launched version of the Exocet antiship missile. Four submarines of the Daphne class had been completed between 1973 and 1975.

The new carrier was to have as its escort group four frigates of the United States FFG-7 class, built in Spain and armed with Harpoon and Standard missiles. The first three were commissioned between 1986 and 1988; construction on the fourth was begun in 1987. 

Naval Aviation was organizationally structured into an aviation flotilla, which had seven squadrons: the 8th Fighter Bomber Squadron with AV-8S Matador aircraft; the 7th Fire Support Helicopter Squadron with AH-1G Huey Cobra; the 1st Training Squadron (AB.47G helicopters); the 4th Communications Squadron; the 3rd (AB.212 ASW helicopters), 5th (SH-3D Sea King) and the 6th (Hughes 500M) ASW helicopters. In operational relationships, the air force's 22nd Patrol Air Wing, equipped with 6 P-3A Orion maritime patrol aircraft, was subordinated to the Navy.

The marines, numbering about 12,000 troops, were divided into base defense forces and landing forces. One of the three base defense battalions was stationed at each of the headquarters at Ferrol, Cartagena, and San Fernando. "Groups" (midway between battalions and regiments) were stationed at Madrid and at Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. The fleet tercio (equal to a regiment), available for immediate embarkation, was based at San Fernando and subordinated to the fleet commander. Marine equipment included M48 tanks, 155-mm self-propelled howitzers, 105-mm self-propelled and towed cannon, 120-, 81-, and 60-mm motars, 106-mm recoilless rifles, TOW and Dragon anti-tank missiles and LVTP-7 amphibian armored personnel carriers.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/es-navy-bourbon3.htm

[RETAC21]

18 hours ago, Jaroslav said:

@RETAC21 and @sunday do you know wich port is this

Spanish corvette Nautilus (PA 64) leaving port, in 1985.

Probably Malaga (looking at the cruise book)

[Stuart Galbraith]

Looks vaguely British to my eye?

[Jaroslav]

Italian navy during Cold war

The Italian navy was responsible for defending Italian trade routes and territory, controlling choke points, and escorting NATO naval forces, all in a vital part of the Mediterranean. 

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/it-marina-cold-war.htm

[Jaroslav]

2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Probably Malaga (looking at the cruise book)

Tnx mate 

[RETAC21]

4 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Probably Malaga (looking at the cruise book)

Looking at Google, it's more likely Cadiz, which would make more sense since Rota naval base is across the bay and the patrol boat would be based at Puntales or San Fernando