India v Pakistan round 4?

[TrustMe]

I couldn't find a Pak V Ind thread anywhere so I thought i'd make one.

 

India halts water release ...

https://www.businesstoday.in/india/story/india-halts-water-release-from-baglihar-dam-on-chenab-after-suspending-indus-waters-treaty-report-474643-2025-05-04

 

This is a serious escalation. As stated in the article, Pakistan is heavily dependent on water that flows from India.

 

[glenn239]

Tough shit for Pakistan then.  Maybe they should stop allowing terrorist attacks into India.

[TrustMe]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

Tough shit for Pakistan then.  Maybe they should stop allowing terrorist attacks into India.

The 1999 border war started in the same way when Pakistani regulars disguised as terrorist crossed the line of control and took Indian terrority.

[glenn239]

Sounds like Pakistan could use a bit of the shit kicking.  Maybe, unlike in 1914, this time the world can hold the ring for India rather than go all-in for the terrorists.

[NickM]

6 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Sounds like Pakistan could use a bit of the shit kicking.  Maybe, unlike in 1914, this time the world can hold the ring for India rather than go all-in for the terrorists.

I have concerns as to how the radicalized Pakistanis in Britain will react towards British Indians,  if the balloon goes up

[crazyinsane105]

15 hours ago, TrustMe said:

I couldn't find a Pak V Ind thread anywhere so I thought i'd make one.

 

India halts water release ...

https://www.businesstoday.in/india/story/india-halts-water-release-from-baglihar-dam-on-chenab-after-suspending-indus-waters-treaty-report-474643-2025-05-04

 

This is a serious escalation. As stated in the article, Pakistan is heavily dependent on water that flows from India.

 

Couple things to point out here.

India can’t ‘halt’ water from the Indus. Not today, not a few years from now. They simply do not have the infrastructure currently in place to hold and retain trillions of gallons water without flooding their own country. What they can do is start building a series of dams to try and do that…and this is assuming two things: Pakistan sits back and does nothing in the years during the construction (a few cruise missiles will easily destroy it) and China decides not to do the same to water going downstream to India.

All in all, it’s a significant amount of hot air but nothing of substance. 

 

[crazyinsane105]

10 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Sounds like Pakistan could use a bit of the shit kicking.  Maybe, unlike in 1914, this time the world can hold the ring for India rather than go all-in for the terrorists.

India tried that in 2019 and failed spectacularly. A suicide bombing killed 40 soldiers in Kashmir. They retaliated two weeks later by dropping Israeli SPICE munitions, all of which missed because they forgot to take into account that GPS is 3 dimensional, not two. Caused the bombs to fly overhead the intended target. Next day Pakistan retaliated by targeting Indian outposts in Kashmir but changing the ordinance direction last minute to ensure they hit outside the base. India sent aircraft to intercept, and ended up losing a Mig-21 and shooting down their own helicopter. They claimed an F-16 kill but offered no definite proof. Outside of India, nobody actually believed an F-16 was taken down. 

The issue is neither country significantly outmatches the other to the point where military ops can change anything. And then there are nukes involved…which makes any large scale conflict extremely remote. Neither country is dumb enough to tamper with each other’s red lines 

Edited May 6, 2025 by crazyinsane105

[crazyinsane105]

2 hours ago, NickM said:

I have concerns as to how the radicalized Pakistanis in Britain will react towards British Indians,  if the balloon goes up

Most folks, after leaving the subcontinent, tend to not care too much about politics back home. And radicalized Pakistanis are a bigger pain in the a*s to other Pakistanis than they are to Indians, believe it or not 

[crazyinsane105]

Purely for military enthusiasts:

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2025/05/04/pakistans-j-10c-stuns-indias-rafale-with-electronic-jamming/
 

This may be pure hot air propaganda, or it may have happened. I do know that the Indian Rafale deal was signed a decade ago, while Pakistan signed the J-10 deal just three years back. So maybe J-10 and ground based Chinese ECM was able to jam Rafales? Chinese made electronics in military applications has advanced rapidly over the years…

Or this was just a propaganda move and never happened. 
 

There is also another aspect…both sides possess AWACs and some very advanced SAMs, along with the longest AAMs so far in service. India has the Meteor, Pakistan has the PL-15. India has S-400 but it’s questionable if they have actually networked this into the Israeli AWACs they purchased. Pakistan has HQ-9, HQ-16, and FD 2000. All of these sync with Chinese AWACs in service along with JF-17s and J-10s.
 

Ground based radar coverage is quite numerous for both, but issue is that with Himalayan mountain range, coverage will never be definitive over large sectors. Hence all the radars and SAMs can still be blind sided by aircraft flying extremely close to the mountains. Which is what happened in 2019 as well. 

Edited May 6, 2025 by crazyinsane105

[TrustMe]

9 hours ago, NickM said:

I have concerns as to how the radicalized Pakistanis in Britain will react towards British Indians,  if the balloon goes up

It's more of a Hindu v Sikh thing over here.

[Rick]

Just remembered this form of cooperation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7ljhbjmjQ

[crazyinsane105]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/indian-vs-pakistani-small-arms-part-1-the-main-service-rifle-44820781
 

Overview of the small arms being used by both sides. India is looking to get the INSAS replaced completely in the following years. Pakistan has tried to replace the G3 but due to budgetary constraints, it’s unlikely this will happen.

[TrustMe]

I've seen pictures of both Indian and Pakistian soldiers using AK pattern rifles. It's interesting that their not mentioned.

[crazyinsane105]

6 minutes ago, TrustMe said:

I've seen pictures of both Indian and Pakistian soldiers using AK pattern rifles. It's interesting that their not mentioned.

He will mention that in Part 2 I believe 

Pakistan used mostly Chinese Type 56, with some specific units using AK-100 series from Russia. The AK pattern series of rifles tends to be more reliable on the high end mountains  of the Himalayas than G-3s. 

India has purchased AK pattern rifles from Russia, the recent being a ToT for several hundred thousand AK-200 rifles which will fully replace the INSAS. Rifle mounted grenade launchers are not standard among most units in either military, though Pakistan has a sizable number of Chinese Type 87s. 

[mandeb48]

8 hours ago, Rick said:

Just remembered this form of cooperation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7ljhbjmjQ

🙄    I suppose it will serve to get money from tourists. 

[crazyinsane105]

Seems like India struck some areas in Pakistan held Kashmir. Will see what happens next. Probably another tit for tat before de escalation 

[rmgill]

Yep. I saw something on X about multiple airstrikes. 

[TrustMe]

Interesting that they attacked at night like western airforces do ... 

 

Edited May 6, 2025 by TrustMe

[crazyinsane105]

It’s also an attempt to limit casualties. Most people tend to be at home during the night, hence whatever target hit will have the least number of individuals inside. 
 

One death has been reported so far. Random comments of IAF aircraft shot down but that is complete bs. No official report of this actually happening.

Seems like India utilized standoff munitions and didn’t try and enter Pakistani airspace unlike in 2019 where they did. 
 

Guess we will wait for the Pakistanis to respond and then the situation will de escalate from there.

[crazyinsane105]

Well, it actually seems like an IAF plane did go down, possibly

 

 

[crazyinsane105]

Too much disinformation on what actually happened…will be at least 24-48 hours before anything gets cleared up 

[crazyinsane105]

At least this seems to be credible, some UAV downed. Ignore the ‘3

jets shot down’ comment 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2025 by crazyinsane105

[Yama]

Meanwhile Indians claim to have shot down either Pakistani F-16 or JF-17. There was a twitter video supposedly showing the wreckage burn, but it was very indistinct. (Also in events like this,  first pics/footage circulated are sometimes some old ones)

[crazyinsane105]

3 minutes ago, Yama said:

Meanwhile Indians claim to have shot down either Pakistani F-16 or JF-17. There was a twitter video supposedly showing the wreckage burn, but it was very indistinct. (Also in events like this,  first pics/footage circulated are sometimes some old ones)

That is old footage, nothing is verified so far 

[Yama]

FWIW, supposedly Indians launched their munitions from within Indian airspace, so if that's correct, doesn't seem too likely Indian jets were shot down inside Pakistan (or vice versa).