Artillery and trucks ?

[Rick]

Noticed that artillery formations in W.W.2 had a lot of trucks in infantry formations for obvious reasons. Were these these trucks "permanently attached" to these artillery formations? Were these trucks used for other purposes other than artillery needs? 

[FALightFighter]

I’m not sure that the meanings haven’t changed since WWII, but today the levels of affiliation are (my words, not the doctrinal definition):

organic- intrinsically part of the unit, always present or the unit doesn’t exist

assigned- permanently part of the units structure (for example you’ll see in lineages that whatever battalion is assigned to whichever BCT, but we can, and do, restructure BCTs, like we are currently doing with cavalry squadrons and engineer battalions)

attached- long term but not permanent part of the unit

operational control- short term part of the unit but really remain part of parent unit

tactical control- under direction of the unit for a specific activity

 

Unless one of the lower command relationships is designated, you have that inclusively (for instance, you have operational and tactical control of attached units unless they are directed somewhere else.

Using this structure, I think that you are talking about organic trucks- trucks that are on the table of equipment for that artillery battery or battalion (for most of WWII, battalion was the highest fixed organization in the field artillery, with brigades or groups consisting of only the headquarters and a variable number/type of assigned or attached battalions. But you may also be talking about quartermaster truck units attached, opcon, tacon, or supporting the field artillery units.

 

[Rick]

Yes to organic trucks. Thank you.

 

[RichTO90]

6 hours ago, Rick said:

Noticed that artillery formations in W.W.2 had a lot of trucks in infantry formations for obvious reasons. Were these these trucks "permanently attached" to these artillery formations? Were these trucks used for other purposes other than artillery needs? 

Not sure what you mean? What is "a lot"? In a WW2 U.S. Army Divisional 105mm Field Artillery Battalion, there were 98 trucks:

25 1/4-ton Utility: 11 HQ & HQ Battery, 4 in each of 3 Firing Batteries, and 2 in Service Battery

26 3/4-ton Weapons Carrier: 11 HQ & HQ Battery, 4 in each of 3 Firing Batteries, and 3 in Service battery

13 2 1/2-ton Cargo: 2 HQ & HQ Battery, 1 in each of 3 Firing Batteries, and 8 in Service Battery

24 2 1/2-ton SWB: 1 HQ & HQ Battery, 6 in each of 3 Firing Batteries, and 5 in Service Battery

In each Firing Battery, there were 4 Firing Sections and a 5th (Ammunition) Section. Each Firing Section had a 2 1/2-ton SWB Prime Mover and there were two more in the 5th Section hauling the Ammunition Trailer M10 and acting as a spare Prime Mover if needed.

In Service Battery, there were 3 Ammunition Train Sections, each with 2 21/2-ton SWB and 1 21/2-ton Cargo, each hauling an Ammunition Trailer as well.

So most of the 2 1/2-ton were either hauling guns or hauling ammunition. Most of the rest were hauling personnel or Battery equipment.

[FALightFighter]

@RichTO90, what is SWB?

[sunday]

short wheelbase, usually

https://truck-encyclopedia.com/ww2/us/GMC-353-CCKW-2-1-2-ton-6x6-truck.php

Quote

CCKW Variants
The main obvious were the long wheelbase (LWB) common truck GMC-353, and the short wheelbase (SWB) GMC-352 prime mover of the US Army.
Initially, both used a modified commercial closed cab design (modified to military grade) with a metal roof and doors, called "close cab". By 1944 a cheaper and simplified open cab version was developed. It used a canvas roof and doors. It also allowed the vehicles to be air-transportable and allowed to pass under low bridges or obstacles and modulate the shipping height. Of fourth of these open cab versions had a machine gun mounting ring, above the co-driver's position. It was armed generally with a M1920 Browning HMG. It was primarly used for AA defense but was found handy in rare encounters with ambusing troops operating in rear lines.

 

[Rick]

9 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

@RichTO90, what is SWB?

I'm not Rich, but I'm pretty sure it stands for Short Wheel Base for a 2 1/2 ton truck. Don't know what a regular or long wheelbase is.

 

Edited March 2 by Rick

[FALightFighter]

11 hours ago, sunday said:

short wheelbase, usually

https://truck-encyclopedia.com/ww2/us/GMC-353-CCKW-2-1-2-ton-6x6-truck.php

 

 

2 hours ago, Rick said:

I'm not Rich, but I'm pretty sure it stands for Short Wheel Base for a 2 1/2 ton truck. Don't know what a regular or long wheelbase is.

 

Thanks!

[RichTO90]

3 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

 

Thanks!

The SWB was considered more maneuverable for getting the howitzer or gun into battery. The bed was large enough to carry the crew and the ready-use ammunition, but not so long that it increased the turning radius. The SWB also had slightly better traction and took up less room.

[Rick]

1 hour ago, RichTO90 said:

The SWB was considered more maneuverable for getting the howitzer or gun into battery. The bed was large enough to carry the crew and the ready-use ammunition, but not so long that it increased the turning radius. The SWB also had slightly better traction and took up less room.

Thank you. Another one of life's many questions answered.

 

[Tim the Tank Nut]

The short wheel base had/has a "posi" differential in it, too.  Better off road traction.  The short, closed cab CCKW is a beautiful piece of art.