US Army's new rifle: the XM7

[Rick]

6 hours ago, bojan said:

Look at the Germans in Afghanistan.

For those of us who are clueless...?

[bojan]

Extensive use of rapid fire lead to a problems with G36s, because those were originally intended to withstand 180 rounds at (relatively) slow fire, while in combat troops fired ~7-10 mags in the ~1/2 interval of time.

 

[shep854]

32 minutes ago, bojan said:

Extensive use of rapid fire lead to a problems with G36s, because those were originally intended to withstand 180 rounds at (relatively) slow fire, while in combat troops fired ~7-10 mags in the ~1/2 interval of time.

 

Similar to Usian M4s.  Not intended for extended FA use ('rapid fire' standard was 90 rpm), they started failing under heavy FA use, giving rise to 'ARs Junk, Round Two.

[EchoFiveMike]

The SEALS and other doing back to back Australian peel drills with FA dump-ex's was the problem with the M4's, which were hardened to cope.  It's just the nature of aggressive young men to push the equipment, it's a development cycle.  

The detection thing is a red herring, once you go loud and are running about, it's a moot point.  S/F....Ken M

 

[Burncycle360]

There's no reason the gun shouldn't last longer than the shooter.
 

Number of rounds as cyclic as plausible until failure:

1708 - BRN-4 (10.4" heavy barrel)
1633 - Geiselle HBAR custom upper
1055 - Radian mod 1
1047 - RRH LMG recce iar v1
1010 - Sig Spear LT
1001 - LMT DI
962 - LWRC IC-A4
901 - Geiselle Super Duty
860 - Klein Machining LMG
832 - LMT piston
783 - Colt M4A1 Socom
743 - Aero M4E1
722 - PWS mk111
686 - DD M4 V7
661 - Aero M16A4
661 - Colt FBI 11.5
643 - Trybe w/ DD gas tube
625 - Geiselle URG-I
625 - BCA M16a4 HBAR
607 - BCM ELW
601 - DD M4 RIS3
587 - Caracal 816a2
574 - KAC SR-15 mod2
562 - Colt/Range Tool M16A1
560 - Brownells BRN-4
540 - POF 415
401 - Wolfpack 11.5
380 - Trybe w/ original gas tube
360 - Jacob Grey ULW

Edited September 23, 2025 by Burncycle360

[Ivanhoe]

[Stuart Galbraith]

What about a nice Garand in .22? With the wood stock, its bound to please the environmentalists instead of plastic.

[shep854]

On 9/23/2025 at 4:13 PM, EchoFiveMike said:

The SEALS and other doing back to back Australian peel drills with FA dump-ex's was the problem with the M4's, which were hardened to cope.  It's just the nature of aggressive young men to push the equipment, it's a development cycle.  

The detection thing is a red herring, once you go loud and are running about, it's a moot point.  S/F....Ken M

 

ALSO, when you're in imminent danger of being overrun (Battle of Wanat)

[Ivanhoe]

On 10/17/2025 at 2:17 AM, Stuart Galbraith said:

What about a nice Garand in .22? With the wood stock, its bound to please the environmentalists instead of plastic.

Plant-based op-rod grease de rigueur. 

[seahawk]

On 9/22/2025 at 7:49 PM, bojan said:

Extensive use of rapid fire lead to a problems with G36s, because those were originally intended to withstand 180 rounds at (relatively) slow fire, while in combat troops fired ~7-10 mags in the ~1/2 interval of time.

 

The problem was a loss of accuracy outside of design specifications. 

https://augengeradeaus.net/2015/10/maengel-beim-g36-keine-probleme-im-gefecht/

[rmgill]

On 10/17/2025 at 3:17 AM, Stuart Galbraith said:

What about a nice Garand in .22? With the wood stock, its bound to please the environmentalists instead of plastic.

M1 carbine in 5.7mm Johnson. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

There you go, sounds perfect. It goes Pew-pew, what more do they want?

Rather than this fetishisation of the perfect assault rifle, they would be doing better to put the money into the perfect light machine gun.

[Ivanhoe]

A couple of weeks ago I was looking at the 5.7x28 as a "daypack carbine" given the KelTec Sub2000 is available in that chambering. 100 rounds of 5.7 weighs next to nothing, and the rifle itself weighs only 4.4 lb. 

I couldn't get past the ballistics, however. 40 grains max bullet weight, not any more terminal effect than 9x19. 

That .22 Johnson looks spicy enough, you've got the whole world of .224 bullets available, and you'll never run out of brass if you have dies. I assume it'll feed fine out of an M1 Carbine mag. 

 

[shep854]

50 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

A couple of weeks ago I was looking at the 5.7x28 as a "daypack carbine" given the KelTec Sub2000 is available in that chambering. 100 rounds of 5.7 weighs next to nothing, and the rifle itself weighs only 4.4 lb. 

I couldn't get past the ballistics, however. 40 grains max bullet weight, not any more terminal effect than 9x19. 

That .22 Johnson looks spicy enough, you've got the whole world of .224 bullets available, and you'll never run out of brass if you have dies. I assume it'll feed fine out of an M1 Carbine mag. 

 

The 10mm Sub2000 has my eye.

[Ivanhoe]

Yeah, though I'm considering the S&W carbine for that. Quite a bit heavier than the 9x19 or 5.7x28 models. 

And the ammo gets heavy, too. Handloads with the Barnes 125 grain monolithic would reduce the weight penalty, and going by the old Ballistics By The Inch website, lighter bullets get more from 16 inch barrels than the heavies. 

9x23 would be awesome, in an ideal world. 

[shep854]

A step back; trying to look at the forest, not just trees:

 

Edited October 24, 2025 by shep854

[shep854]

The kiss of death??

At 39:00 in his latest Q&A video, Ian calls the M7, '...the stereotypically perfect Elbonian rifle...' 😜

[Stuart Galbraith]

That is pretty damning.

So, what is wrong with DOD procurement that foolish ideas like this get so far into the procurement stream before being knocked on the head (or worse, procured). Whats going on?

[sunday]

8 hours ago, shep854 said:

The kiss of death??

At 39:00 in his latest Q&A video, Ian calls the M7, '...the stereotypically perfect Elbonian rifle...' 😜

Ouch!

[Markus Becker]

13 hours ago, shep854 said:

The kiss of death??

At 39:00 in his latest Q&A video, Ian calls the M7, '...the stereotypically perfect Elbonian rifle...' 😜

Reminds me to finish the Battle Rilfe Q&A. 

[DougK]

On 9/22/2025 at 1:41 PM, Ivanhoe said:

 

I recall a saying from an RVN vet along the lines of semi-auto fire for offense, full auto for retreat. 

Interesting. My experience is FA for the initial contact (regardless of who is ambushing whom), semi for once the contact is "established" and, if necessary, FA (and a shitload of grenades) for breaking contact. 
Our access to 30rd mags was limited, that is 2-3 per man with one of those in the weapon (or two if taped together). Even with our large SOP loadout, ammo discipline is damn important the further you get from the fort. Resupply was less certain as our birds weren't all weather and in the mountains, in the wet season, they might not be coming.
Our next door neighbors at Camp Eagle were Lima Co. Rngr LRRP's and this pic from the late Randy White's collection is typical of what they and we were carrying on planned missions. We didn't have CAR's, but the A1 w/ M203 is identical to my weapon.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 I read somewhere that MAC V SOG had an anti ambush drill, where the guy in the lead (many of them were carrying would dump his entire magazine using the weapon as a light machine gun, then peel off about 20 feet back, then the next guy, and then the next, till the entire section eventually broke contact. The object was to make the enemy feel he was  facing a much larger unit and keep his head down. It apparently worked very well, but I couldnt help but think when reading it that it was a good way to tear up a CAR-15 in a hurry, particularly in an extended contact.

[EchoFiveMike]

The Australian Peel is a technique for dealing with contact when moving in column, yeah, it might be slightly tough on the gun, if the gun can't handle it, re-engineer it til it can; this is the requirement.  War uses shit up, so you burn up a couple tens of millions of dollars of guns/year, that number doesn't even qualify as trivial, it's infinitesimal as part of the defense budget of any country, let alone the US.  S/F....Ken M   

[DougK]

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 I read somewhere that MAC V SOG had an anti ambush drill, where the guy in the lead (many of them were carrying would dump his entire magazine using the weapon as a light machine gun, then peel off about 20 feet back, then the next guy, and then the next, till the entire section eventually broke contact. The object was to make the enemy feel he was  facing a much larger unit and keep his head down. It apparently worked very well, but I couldnt help but think when reading it that it was a good way to tear up a CAR-15 in a hurry, particularly in an extended contact.

If you're doing the peel to hopefully break contact, you wouldn't much care how hard it might be on your weapon as long as it doesn't stop right then.
The peel is not just a SOG maneuver by any means. The whole point of the FA in the opening moments is to do precisely as you suggest...make your element appear huge and/or more formidable that they were anticipating. If you are the one being ambushed, it hopefully disrupts the enemy (even if it's just suppressive fire for the most part). Make the enemy reconsider his committment to the enterprise.
If breaking contact, much the same principle...make the other guy cautious about pursuit. The Rangers and SF had the M14 "toe popper" mine for pursuit deterrence.  One of these inexplicably ended the command (after three days) of a replacement CO over at Lima who had managed to alienate everybody. Non-lethal but not something you expect to encounter in the Company area.
Whatever became of the Next Big Thing, the XM-8? Big splash on arrival and I heard not a word when it was cancelled.
I did like the connectible mags.

[Rick]

5 hours ago, DougK said:

If you're doing the peel to hopefully break contact, you wouldn't much care how hard it might be on your weapon as long as it doesn't stop right then.
The peel is not just a SOG maneuver by any means. The whole point of the FA in the opening moments is to do precisely as you suggest...make your element appear huge and/or more formidable that they were anticipating. If you are the one being ambushed, it hopefully disrupts the enemy (even if it's just suppressive fire for the most part). Make the enemy reconsider his committment to the enterprise.
If breaking contact, much the same principle...make the other guy cautious about pursuit. The Rangers and SF had the M14 "toe popper" mine for pursuit deterrence.  One of these inexplicably ended the command (after three days) of a replacement CO over at Lima who had managed to alienate everybody. Non-lethal but not something you expect to encounter in the Company area.
Whatever became of the Next Big Thing, the XM-8? Big splash on arrival and I heard not a word when it was cancelled.
I did like the connectible mags.

Your basement?