2025 LA Fires

[NickM]

41 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-anti-israel-activists-blame-israel-for-los-angeles-wildfire-crisis/
 

 

Inevitable, I suppose.

 

Code Pink the islamist appologists? how ironic. Didn't they get saved from mob sexual assault in Cairo,  like that lady reporter was, and even more ironically,  they hid out at the Chevron compound?

Edited January 13 by NickM

[PaulFormerlyinSaudi]

16 hours ago, NickM said:

Watched Greek News with my mom 

The Greeks of course have a wicked fire problem of their own. 

[rmgill]

12 minutes ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said:

The Greeks of course have a wicked fire problem of their own. 

Many places have local environmental concerns due to the nature of the geography, weather, etc. 

The true test of efficacy of local/state government is if they account for those environmental issues in a competent fashion or not. LA and California have not.

Ironic that the state with the most aggressive environmental policies in the country saw no issues with a non-native tree, that is highly flammable and which exacerbated the issue to an arguably high degree. 

The inability for California to proceed with a water resources plan drawn up decades ago and their inability to deal with maintaining their current infrastructure is beyond reprehensible. 

 

[Ivanhoe]

Obviously, Newsom has had some PR coaching to talk with his hands;

https://x.com/TheKevinDalton/status/1878587916911546643

 

Quote

“We already have a team reimagining LA 2.0.”

LA 2.0;

 

[JWB]

LA Fire 'persons of interest' 
@LAPD
 should interview

[Ivanhoe]

[JWB]

A flurry of separate lawsuits were filed Monday against Southern California Edison, a utility company in California, by homeowners and renters who lost their homes in the Eaton Fire.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/homeowners-renters-sue-california-utility-company-eaton-fire/story?id=117636620&cid=social_twitter_abcn

[Mr King]

https://x.com/youyoyotoo/status/1878544573368246425

 

Edited January 14 by Mr King

[lucklucky]

One thing i have been noticing in some images and videos is that trees resisted some even with foliage near burned houses, it seems to me there is something wrong with paint and materials employed  in many of these constructions.

Edited January 14 by lucklucky

[rmgill]

That's because the trees are Eucalyptus. I think they burn the light bark and bark litter all around as a survival mechanism where the fire burns up the tree quickly but doesn't actually destroy the tree if it's a reasonably sized fire. 

[lucklucky]

The trees i saw were not eucalyptus.

Edited January 14 by lucklucky

[rmgill]

Hmm. Could be another somewhat fire resistant species. They sacrifice their leaves and the fire doesn't kill the core of the tree. Lots of trees do that, like the southern long leaf pine. 

SoCAL is an area that I think is likely to have regular fire. Same as in parts of the south below the fall line. Keep a buffer space around your home. The cheek to jowl neighborhood in LA is going to result in structures close together. 

Also shrubs up against a building will ignite and set fire to the wood under the eaves so that needs protection too. 

[lucklucky]

Look at this image, lots of green.

 

[lucklucky]

Many more images with lots of green. Something is not right with LA buildings. It seems they are more vulnerable than trees.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-show-devastating-aftermath-los-204433601.html

Edited January 14 by lucklucky

[lucklucky]

Edited January 14 by lucklucky

[lucklucky]

[bojan]

3 hours ago, lucklucky said:

Many more images with lots of green. Something is not right with LA buildings. It seems they are more vulnerable than trees.

Trees are live and "wet" wood, houses are mostly dried wood. Have you ever watched US type house being constructed? From the European perspective whole thing is a giant fire hazard, from tarred shingles roofs (well, there are idiots who use those in southern Europe also...), PU spray foam insulation* in the attic, wooden framing of the whole thing etc, etc.

Once something (anything) catches fire it is done unless fire is suppressed in very early stage.

*Burns extremely fast.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

that is an interesting set of photos, I must admit.

There has to be an explanation of a scientific nature (I mean the old reference to science, not "science" as it is referred to today).

[Ivanhoe]

7 hours ago, rmgill said:

Hmm. Could be another somewhat fire resistant species. They sacrifice their leaves and the fire doesn't kill the core of the tree. Lots of trees do that, like the southern long leaf pine. 
 

https://firesafesdcounty.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Comprehensive-Fire-Resistant-Plant-List.pdf

[DKTanker]

48 minutes ago, bojan said:

Trees are live and "wet" wood, houses are mostly dried wood. Have you ever watched US type house being constructed? From the European perspective whole thing is a giant fire hazard, from tarred shingles roofs (well, there are idiots who use those in southern Europe also...), PU spray foam insulation* in the attic, wooden framing of the whole thing etc, etc.

Once something (anything) catches fire it is done unless fire is suppressed in very early stage.

*Burns extremely fast.

California brethren can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all new construction, going back at least 20 years or more, must have tile or metal (non-flammable) roofs.  Obviously that doesn't help older construction.

Spray foam insulation does burn, no doubt about it, but it doesn't burn nearly as readily as the wood framing which surrounds it.

[rmgill]

I think the key risk is that when the fires are up against the structure, the flames/hot gases ascent up through the eve vents and set the eves and interior structure of the roof ablaze. 



Many of the older homes out there are craftsman style, with exposed rafter tails and roof decking in the form of Tongue and Groove boards exposed above those exposed rafter tails. 

Like so.


I am not certain how one would fire proof that in a material sense. 

I think the best solution would be a fire stop spray that seals the wood or intumescent paint.  Alternatively, maybe a large blanket of fiberglass able to be hung from the roof would be the best way. 

Maybe a wash down system? Or a remote controlled/automatic water spray with an IR camera that shoots hot spots with a spurt of water from a high spot on the roof? 

Either way, not having hedges up against the house would be a helpful thing in the event of a fire. 

[lucklucky]

What we are seeing  in this picture is that conditions for widespread fire were only possible with houses in this case. I am having difficulty finding foliage less fire prone so i would look into accelerants: paints, varnishes, lacquers. In this image we see fire went from house to house but had not enough energy to start foliage combustion.

Edited January 14 by lucklucky

[Ivanhoe]

The house I grew up in, built in 1964, had a cedar shake roof. My father finally replaced the shakes with asphalt shingles. He wanted to go with metal pseudo-shakes to maintain consistency with the original design, but price was too high.
 

As for eaves, I have recently read that firefighters believe that the "ember-fall" in big fires results in some embers floating up through eave vents and setting the roof timbers on fire from the inside.

I knew there was some species of pine in CA that only reproduced after a fire, but couldn't recall the name;

https://www.nationalforests.org/our-forests/light-and-seed-magazine/how-trees-survive-and-thrive-after-a-fire

What my tattered memory was trying to tell me is actually about serotinous cones. They essentially only split open to release seeds during a fire. The above article mentions Lodgepole pines as a prime example of a west-of-the-Mississippi pine that works that way.

One of the challenges of building fire-resistant single-family homes in CA is the net present value lost to property taxes when more than minimum materials and standards are met. Spending an extra $25k on a metal roof might cost an additional $25k over the course of a 25-year ownership. And that's not even considering any code compliance hassles. Any time a builder tries to do something better, the codes people put him/her thru the wringer. Financially better for the builder to stick to older, unsafe methods.

[rmgill]

 I poked around in some of those neighbourhoods in LA and Glendale when I was put there. When Me and my team were at a starbucks near our hotel in Glendale, we walked there past a bunch of those houses. All had nice arts and crafts details with lots of exposed wood. ( I managed to stand in line with Laura San Giacomo too as she had the same schedule as us for some coincident reason. Cute even then. 🙂.)

 

Those houses have been there for many decades. I think a major issue is neglect of the fire breaks, clearing of brush and coordinated small burns.

 

I am particularly fixated on the arts and crafts style, thats why I paid so much attention when I was there. 

[Ivanhoe]

The housing tract I grew up in heavily used two species of iceplant and one species of ivy to limit the spread of fire.

OTOH, various types of juniper were planted as ornamentals (including my family's house);

https://firesafemarin.org/plant/junipers/