US tank design and philosophy

[Stuart Galbraith]

I don't think they ever used the M60 in Vietnam at all.

 

[RETAC21]

5 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I don't think they ever used the M60 in Vietnam at all.

No, of course, because tanks are not good for the jungle. M48s were used by the Marines because they were good enough to kill T-55s and earlier tanks and by the US Army because Vietnam was not a primary theater. M60s went to Germany first.

The Israelis and the Jordanians used them in 1967 with no complains, AFAIK:

[Stuart Galbraith]

That's sounds logical, except the M551 was brand new and seemed to go to Vietnam at least as often as Europe.

Edited February 18 by Stuart Galbraith

[R011]

I rather get the impression that the US Army was working on a replacement for the 90 mm throughout the fifties when the British came out with the 105 mm L7 and the US decided that there was no point reinventing the wheel.

Not a lot of PAVN tanks until after the Americans left. No point in updating the tanks they sent there from 90 mm to 105 mm.  Obviously Germany and Korea would have priority for M60 with M48, updated or not, in secondary theatres like Vietnam and at home.  M48A5 with the3 105 m were in reserve and NG service into the eighties.

[Ssnake]

1 hour ago, RETAC21 said:

No, of course, because tanks are not good for the jungle.

a. they are better than most people seem to believe

b. only 20% of Vietnam is jungle

c. armored combat were used often, in quantity, and successfully - by US troops, South Vietnam, and Australian troops (Centurion)

[shep854]

5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

That's sounds logic, except the M551 was brand new and seemed to go to Vietnam at least as often as Europe.

Pity Doug Kibbey stepped away from Tanknet, though he's still on Facebook.  He could give you an earful!

[R011]

It wasn't a matter of new or older (and the M48 was still pretty new in 1970), but what was needed and what was in inventory.  M60s weren't needed, but M551 were establishment for armored recon and airborne.  And they still had lots of M48 to fill armored battalion establishments that were more than good enough to do the job there and then.

[Stuart Galbraith]

5 hours ago, shep854 said:

Pity Doug Kibbey stepped away from Tanknet, though he's still on Facebook.  He could give you an earful!

He usually did, bless him.

I hope he keeps good health, he was always interesting.

[shep854]

17 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

He usually did, bless him.

I hope he keeps good health, he was always interesting.

We're Facebook friends, and he posts on a FB historical armor site.  Yes, he's well.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Good.👍

You might want to point this out to him. I used some photographs he posted on a Vietnam site as the basis for this DCS skin, I hope he doesnt mind.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3317548/

Edited February 19 by Stuart Galbraith

[shep854]

3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Good.👍

You might want to point this out to him. I used some photographs he posted on a Vietnam site as the basis for this DCS skin, I hope he doesnt mind.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3317548/

If you are on Facebook, Doug posts on 'The Historic Armor Appreciation Group'.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Im not currently, but thanks, ill keep it in mind. 👍

[Murph]

On 2/17/2025 at 4:20 PM, Ssnake said:

a. they are better than most people seem to believe

b. only 20% of Vietnam is jungle

c. armored combat were used often, in quantity, and successfully - by US troops, South Vietnam, and Australian troops (Centurion)

Yes,, very much so.  

[Mr King]

Out of curiosity was the shillelagh missile capable of being fired on the move or did the firing vehicle have to come to a complete stop while it fired and guided the missile to the target?

Edited February 21 by Mr King

[Tim Sielbeck]

 

From Tank Gunnery M60A2 FM 17-12-4

The M60A2 tank is designed to be operated in the stabilized mode. The only exception to this is the missile, which should be launched from a stationary tank.

[Mr King]

52 minutes ago, Tim Sielbeck said:

 

From Tank Gunnery M60A2 FM 17-12-4

The M60A2 tank is designed to be operated in the stabilized mode. The only exception to this is the missile, which should be launched from a stationary tank.

Thank you.

[Murph]

Plus if I recall it had a horrible range issue and could not be used at ranges under 800 yards due to missile sight issues.  

[RETAC21]

On 2/17/2025 at 11:20 PM, Ssnake said:

a. they are better than most people seem to believe

b. only 20% of Vietnam is jungle

c. armored combat were used often, in quantity, and successfully - by US troops, South Vietnam, and Australian troops (Centurion)

My fault, should have put a smiley there to make clear it was sarcastic! 

Also, the North Vietnamese used T-55s too

[Murph]

For the CDATs out there, when did Sabot or more specifically APFSDS come into regular service with the US, and in what gun?

[Tim Sielbeck]

DAT here.  M735 late ‘70s or early ’80s for the M68 105mm.

[Martin M]

On 2/5/2025 at 9:38 PM, RichTO90 said:

snip . . .

And yet, the AGF Development office gave Barnes specification directions on what they required, based upon combat experience, which was their "ideal medium tank" in April 1944: 75mm high-velocity gun with complete round weighing less than 35 pounds and capable of penetrating 8" of armor at 30 degrees at 1,000 yards with HVAP, total weight 45 tons with wide tracks, and an armor basis of 6 inches" - basically a Panther before the full realization of how much of a threat the Panther was. McNair's answer was basically, "you can have the T26, sometime in 1945, its exactly that". 🤪

snip . . .

wait a second . . .    information not seen before-  should be saved.

Perahps for the next Panther debate.

[Mr King]

Quote

M1150 with a dummy gun disguised as an Abrams tank

 

 

https://x.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1898775748003102828

 

Edited March 10 by Mr King