Spain flood

[futon]

Spain got hit with a nasty flood.

 

[Ssnake]

Yeah, it's been really bad. Local authorities got the warning at 0730, and rang the alarm around 1900 when the water was already in the streets. A downpour of up to 400l water per square meter in some regions.

[sunday]

Aerial pictures of the damage

https://www.eldebate.com/espana/comunidad-valenciana/20241103/nasa-sorprendida-efectos-dana-sedimentos-llenaron-rio_241449.html

Usual aspect:

Flooded

North more or less up. The port city is Valencia, and south of the port one could see the mouth of the newly built (late 1960s) channel of the Turia river putting sediment-laden water into the sea. That new channel has saved Valencia city. South of the channel, well, almost all of those flooded grounds are in a flood plain that has a flood return time of 50 years.

Response of the national government (socialist) has been lacking, and they have wanted to put the blame on to the regional government (conservative-light).

Today the King and Queen went to visit. Prime Minister insisted on going along. That last part was not well received by the local population, and PM had to flee the scene:

Meanwhile, the King talking with the local neighbors:

 

Edited November 3 by sunday

[Ivanhoe]

Locals already cleaning up;

 

The need for heavy equipment is massive. And of course, clean diesel.

 

[Ivanhoe]

Obligatory action shot.

[Ivanhoe]

Locals are apparently extremely unhappy with local and federal government (I read the phrase "pelted with mud" a minute ago).

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Just been a weather warning issued, I think they said something like 60 cm of rain in the next hour or so. Really hoping I misheard that....

[sunday]

12 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Locals are apparently extremely unhappy with local and federal government (I read the phrase "pelted with mud" a minute ago).

National government, mostly. Spain is not a federation, not yet. They were very late to put measures in place, and when the members of a regional base of special forces decided spontaneously to intervene, their CO received a reprimand from the Defense Minister.

Main problem there, from long time ago is that most towns to the south of Valencia, the regional capital, are traditionally built in a floodplain. There were some civil works planned twenty years ago to prevent flooding damage, but those were cancelled by the Socialist government of Rodríguez Zapatero.

In the first video I posted one could hear "Pedro Sánchez hijo de puta". Pedro Sánchez is the national prime minister, and the literal translation of that is "Pedro Sánchez you son of a whore", perhaps the strongest insult in Spanish that one could direct to a person.

Edited to add:

On the positive side, one could see that the traditional brick and reinforced concrete construction method produces housing able to withstand quite intense floods.

Edited November 3 by sunday

[urbanoid]

In the morning I saw the story making rounds on twatter about the French firemen coming to help, despite the Spanish government telling them not to, additionally that they were the first to arrive. True or fake noos?

[sunday]

1 minute ago, urbanoid said:

In the morning I saw the story making rounds on twatter about the French firemen coming to help, despite the Spanish government telling them not to, additionally that they were the first to arrive. True or fake noos?

True the Spanish government telling them they were not needed. First notice they are regardless coming.

[sunday]

Here a local lady stating they have run out of place and resources to manage the foodstuffs and clothing that has voluntarily arrived, and asking for boots, spades and rakes:

https://www.eldebate.com/espana/comunidad-valenciana/20241103/suplica-vecina-massanassa-ante-aluvion-ayuda-estamos-desbordados-no-podemos-gestionarlo_241504.html

There have been news of something uncommon, looting. The looters seem to share a certain, new in these lands, profile.

 

[urbanoid]

1 minute ago, sunday said:

True the Spanish government telling them they were not needed. First notice they are regardless coming.

Things like that are being posted:

https://x.com/WorldCrisi19621/status/1852689402117456176

https://x.com/fenixwryght/status/1852776177506943427

I googled GSCF and it's a French NGO and relief/rescue organization, they went to the US after Katrina too. 

[sunday]

2 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Things like that are being posted:

https://x.com/WorldCrisi19621/status/1852689402117456176

https://x.com/fenixwryght/status/1852776177506943427

I googled GSCF and it's a French NGO and relief/rescue organization, they went to the US after Katrina too. 

Ok, let's wait for the public service French firemen.

Today Basque firemen received their marching orders to Valencia...

[Mr King]

48 minutes ago, sunday said:

Today the King and Queen went to visit. Prime Minister insisted on going along. That last part was not well received by the local population, and PM had to flee the scene:

Meanwhile, the King talking with the local neighbors:

That's awesome to see.

[seahawk]

Is there any official link for donations?

[sunday]

8 minutes ago, seahawk said:

Is there any official link for donations?

https://comunica.gva.es/es/detalle?id=387402765&site=373422916

Quote

The Generalitat Valenciana has created a solidarity account to support those affected by the DANA that has hit the Valencian Community. Through this initiative, citizens, entities and companies will be able to make donations that will be entirely used to assist those affected and contribute to repairing the damage suffered.

The solidarity initiative is already operational thanks to the Ministry of Finance, Economy and Public Administration in collaboration with Banco Sabadell. Those interested can make their donations to the following finalist account:
ES94 0081 0693 61 0002423445

For each euro donated, Banco Sabadell has committed to contribute an additional euro, with a minimum contribution by the entity of 500,000 euros.

The Generalitat values the involvement and solidarity of all the entities, companies and individuals who have shown their willingness to contribute to minimising the impact of the DANA.

 

[seahawk]

Muchas gracias.

[rmgill]

5 hours ago, sunday said:

National government, mostly. Spain is not a federation, not yet. They were very late to put measures in place, and when the members of a regional base of special forces decided spontaneously to intervene, their CO received a reprimand from the Defense Minister.

Main problem there, from long time ago is that most towns to the south of Valencia, the regional capital, are traditionally built in a floodplain. There were some civil works planned twenty years ago to prevent flooding damage, but those were cancelled by the Socialist government of Rodríguez Zapatero.

In the first video I posted one could hear "Pedro Sánchez hijo de puta". Pedro Sánchez is the national prime minister, and the literal translation of that is "Pedro Sánchez you son of a whore", perhaps the strongest insult in Spanish that one could direct to a person.

Edited to add:

On the positive side, one could see that the traditional brick and reinforced concrete construction method produces housing able to withstand quite intense floods.

Yeah. I was getting the epithet. That is one I'm aware of. 

As to the flood prevention, seems like the following are needed...
1. channels to handle the flood waters
2. all housing built to handle higher than expected levels. Masonry 1st floors that are not living space. 
3. an early warning system to warn folks of impending flooding. Japan has something like this for some regions that experience mud slides. 


All around terrible news. Irksome that it's the usual rejoinder to slip in some climate change alarmism in the reports. I would be surprised if there's NEVER been flooding in that region before in 2000 years...

Edited November 3 by rmgill

[sunday]

9 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Yeah. I was getting the epithet. That is one I'm aware of. 

As to the flood prevention, seems like the following are needed...
1. channels to handle the flood waters
2. all housing built to handle higher than expected levels. Masonry 1st floors that are not living space. 
3. an early warning system to warn folks of impending flooding. Japan has something like this for some regions that experience mud slides. 


All around terrible news. Irksome that it's the usual rejoinder to slip in some climate change alarmism in the reports. I would be surprised if there's NEVER been flooding in that region before in 2000 years...

There have been about 75 flooding episodes in the area during the last 700 years, so it looks like climate change is not a likely culprit.

After the 1957 floods, a new channel for the river Turia, the one that cross Valencia was planned, and that new channel saved Valencia in these most recent floods. There were auxiliary works planned to defend the lands south of the new channel, but those plans are still to be implemented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Valencia_flood

As a curiosity, looks like the green-red local politicians wanted to demolish the new channel, surely because it is a Francoist work, and let Turia flow by the center of the city again...

[seahawk]

9 hours ago, rmgill said:

Yeah. I was getting the epithet. That is one I'm aware of. 

As to the flood prevention, seems like the following are needed...
1. channels to handle the flood waters
2. all housing built to handle higher than expected levels. Masonry 1st floors that are not living space. 
3. an early warning system to warn folks of impending flooding. Japan has something like this for some regions that experience mud slides. 


All around terrible news. Irksome that it's the usual rejoinder to slip in some climate change alarmism in the reports. I would be surprised if there's NEVER been flooding in that region before in 2000 years...

At 450l/m² no technical solution will cope. Or let me phrase it differently, for that amount of rain, the Spanish systems worked outstandigly well and the damage was quite small.

[sunday]

Two planned sets of works that could have helped with the recent flood

http://www.ingenieriadelagua.com/2004/jia/jia2009/fs/AO15rev.pdf

https://www.chj.es/es-es/ciudadano/participacion_publica/Documents/Descripción de las actuaciones.pdf

Edited November 4 by sunday

[DB]

Although completely trivial in comparison, a sudden heavy thunderstorm near Madrid where I was staying at the time produced so much rain towards the end of a typical Spanish summer that there was no hope for the ground to absorb it and even less hope that the installed drainage would cope.

The apartment block I was staying in had 2 feet of water in the upper of the two subterranean garage levels. The lift shaft looked like a lake drainage system.

it seems that a similar problem - flooding of subterranean spaces - may be responsible for a significant number of casualties, but obviously on a huge scale.

[Ivanhoe]

On 11/3/2024 at 10:11 AM, sunday said:

On the positive side, one could see that the traditional brick and reinforced concrete construction method produces housing able to withstand quite intense floods.

Shoutout to François Hennebique for developing practical steel-reinforced concrete.

[sunday]

An excellent video that shows the building encroachment of the floodplain:

 

[Leo Niehorster]

Indeed. A clear and detailed explanation as to why the catastrophe happened. Combination of many factors. Frankly, building on a floodplain is like building on a volcano. Sooner  of later that is coming around to seriously bite you in your fundament.

By the way, I like his voice and his Spanish.

Leo