Israel-Iran-Proxies Conflict

[MiGG0]

1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Didn't you say you were gonna reply with the necessary information on your jennycide claims?

Yes, when Im home as I said (still on trip and only with phone).

[MiGG0]

46 minutes ago, R011 said:

This is the legal definition of genocide:

Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Israeli actions are not destroying the people pf Gaza.

This was march:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
 

 

Edited October 30, 2024 by MiGG0

[R011]

8 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

This was march:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
 

 

See my prey post on anti Semitism etc 

[MiGG0]

1 minute ago, R011 said:

See my prey post on anti Semitism etc 

See m y reply to it: Calling everyone antisemitism it they accuse Israel of genoside is laughable. Perhaps you should change thinking. Isreal actrually maybe is doing genoside as many are calling of it!

 

[R011]

Incidentally, the ICJ effectively dismissed the genocide case against Israel.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

Yes, we understand.  Selective targeting is one of two explanations.  The other possibility is that AD prevented some buildings being hit.   

It was a 3 wave attack. Air defenses are usually struck in the first.

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

You stated that Iranian AD could not shoot down specific types of Israeli missiles.  This, immediately after you'd stated that you are not an expert in SAM systems or this type of technical discussion.

And immediately after that I quoted an expert. I verify things with others before I post here.

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

In fact, you and I have no clue what the status of Iranian AD is.  All we know is that they have a shit ton of SAM systems and are being assisted by both the Russians and the Chinese.

The vast majority of which are the same tier of stuff as Syria. To intercept something, a SAM battery must not only achieve hit along the path it plotted, but see the target without interruption and with perfect discrimination. Not something a 60's system will easily do.

 

[R011]

3 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

See m y reply to it: Calling everyone antisemitism it they accuse Israel of genoside is laughable. Perhaps you should change thinking. Isreal actrually maybe is doing genoside as many are calling of it!

 

More than anti Semitism as I stated, but they're the main motivation for false charges of genocide by Israel.  The laghability is ignoring the black letter law and trusting the UN.

[Mighty_Zuk]

@MiGG0 Fact of the matter is that if we were to label the war in Gaza a genocide, we would necessarily have to call EVERY war a genocide, and then actual genocides would become meaningless.

The war in Gaza, if analyzed properly, is perhaps the best antithesis in modern history, of a war that is the opposite of genocide.

 

Higher res imagery of the site in Parchin, giving us a better look into the Taleghan 2.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Mighty_Zuk

[MiGG0]

16 minutes ago, R011 said:

Incidentally, the ICJ effectively dismissed the genocide case against Israel.

Uh, in what planet are you living? Initial rulin was that tehre is grouds for genoside and investigation can start 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/26/world/israel-hamas-gaza-news#9dbe041c-17bd-5b24-897a-014321ad181b
 

[MiGG0]

25 minutes ago, R011 said:

More than anti Semitism as I stated, but they're the main motivation for false charges of genocide by Israel.  The laghability is ignoring the black letter law and trusting the UN.

It is not just UN but UN and ICJ are only legal bodies that have any authority of this. Nazis rejected Nuremberg authority swell, you know.

Edited October 30, 2024 by MiGG0

[MiGG0]

12 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

@MiGG0 Fact of the matter is that if we were to label the war in Gaza a genocide, we would necessarily have to call EVERY war a genocide, and then actual genocides would become meaningless.

The war in Gaza, if analyzed properly, is perhaps the best antithesis in modern history, of a war that is the opposite of genocide.

 

 

Just BS. In gaza Israel have achieved pretty much one of the worst civilian/combatant casualty ration in modern conflight adn are accused of genoside.

[Mighty_Zuk]

10 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

It is not just UN but UN and ICJ are only legal bodies that have any authority of this. Nazis rejected Nuremberg authority swell, you know.

Believe it or not but neither the UN nor ICJ have any real authority. Certainly not above any nation.

6 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

Just BS. In gaza Israel have achieved pretty much one of the worst civilian/combatant casualty ration in modern conflight adn are accused of genoside.

1. You said the ICJ is investigating. Not that it concluded anything. It has only ruled at every point that it cannot conclude there was or is a genocide.

2. The war in Gaza has in fact generated the best combatant:civilian ratio in modern history. You're misinterpreting it by comparing it with entirely incomparable wars. Throughout the war the general assessment was that the ratio was 1:1 or above. This is by all means a phenomenal ratio. The only nation on the planet capable of exceeding Israel's ratio is the US.

Internal Hamas reports I previously posted here show Hamas believes only about 20% of the casualties are civilians.

 

Of course there's the matter of physics. To define the Gaza War as genocide is to defy basic principles of physics and mathematics.

[R011]

48 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

Uh, in what planet are you living? Initial rulin was that tehre is grouds for genoside and investigation can start 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/26/world/israel-hamas-gaza-news#9dbe041c-17bd-5b24-897a-014321ad181b
 

What they said was that South Africa could bring charges.  They then declined to take further action beyond warning Israel not to commit genocide.  The ICJ is not conducting further investigation 

[urbanoid]

Yeah, well, anyone could sue anyone else, even the butthurt thirdworlders who fucked up a once great country.

[MiGG0]

51 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Believe it or not but neither the UN nor ICJ have any real authority. Certainly not above any nation.

1. You said the ICJ is investigating. Not that it concluded anything. It has only ruled at every point that it cannot conclude there was or is a genocide.

2. The war in Gaza has in fact generated the best combatant:civilian ratio in modern history. You're misinterpreting it by comparing it with entirely incomparable wars. Throughout the war the general assessment was that the ratio was 1:1 or above. This is by all means a phenomenal ratio. The only nation on the planet capable of exceeding Israel's ratio is the US.

Internal Hamas reports I previously posted here show Hamas believes only about 20% of the casualties are civilians.

 

Of course there's the matter of physics. To define the Gaza War as genocide is to defy basic principles of physics and mathematics.

UN and ICJ definately have authority. Executive elements are just nations themself

1. ICJ concluded that there are enought of evidence that S-Africa can proceed with the case (and has proceed with it after that)
2. Again there are over 40k total casualteis (mainly confirmed from names by WHO, UN and even Israel authorities) and estimates show almost 200k is possible https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext  Total numbers currently almost imposibble to confirm as Gaza healt care system pretty much has collapsed (also that is one thing that is already added as one of the possbile Israel warcrimes in ICJ by S.Africa, with purposebly causing famine, etc)

Last part is totally BS. You can have war in cities wihtoy accusation of Genoside in ICJ. USA and even RUS (and that is embarassing) has managed to do that lately without anyone raising case about genoside against them. There always have been noices but never enought of evidence to do that... now there is.

Edited October 30, 2024 by MiGG0

[MiGG0]

34 minutes ago, R011 said:

What they said was that South Africa could bring charges.  They then declined to take further action beyond warning Israel not to commit genocide.  The ICJ is not conducting further investigation 

Yes, but initial ruling is that S.Africa can bring case forward (and has been doing that since, collecting more evidence, etc) as there is enough of evidence of possible genoside. They could have ruled that they wont take the case at all and that would have been it.... but they didnt. Actaul court probably will take years.

Edited October 30, 2024 by MiGG0

[R011]

9 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

Yes, but initial ruling is that S.Africa can bring case forward (and has been doing that since, collecting more evidence, etc) as there is enough of evidence of possible genoside. They could have ruled that they wont take the case at all and that would have been it.... but they didnt. Actaul court probably will take years.

In other words, the case is so weak that it's not worth the court's time and the plaintiff needs to return with actual evidence to proceed.  If they had a prima facie case, the court would have issued an injunction, at least.   

And could you please learn how to spell genocide?

 

[MiGG0]

10 minutes ago, R011 said:

In other words, the case is so weak that it's not worth the court's time and the plaintiff needs to return with actual evidence to proceed.  If they had a prima facie case, the court would have issued an injunction, at least.   

 

 

No, if it was weak, ICJ would not take case at all and S-Africa would have forced to drop its charges. Genoside case against Isreel is still ongoing in ICJ.
 

Quote

And could you please learn how to spell genocide?

 No, genoside

Edited October 30, 2024 by MiGG0

[R011]

33 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

UN and ICJ definately have authority. Executive elements are just nations themself

1. ICJ concluded that there are enought of evidence that S-Africa can proceed with the case (and has proceed with it after that)
2. Again there are over 40k total casualteis (mainly confirmed from names by WHO, UN and even Israel authorities) and estimates show almost 200k is possible https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext  Total numbers currently almost imposibble to confirm as Gaza healt care system pretty much has collapsed (also that is one thing that is already added as one of the possbile Israel warcrimes in ICJ by S.Africa, with purposebly causing famine, etc)

Last part is totally BS. You can have war in cities wihtoy accusation of Genoside in ICJ. USA and even RUS (and that is embarassing) has managed to do that lately without anyone raising case about genoside against them. There always have been noices but never enought of evidence to do that... now there is.

1.  As noted, insufficient evidence of genocide to take any actual action, not even an injunction.  If they believed genocide was actually happening, there would be some urgency to do something.

2.  I'm sure there ae lots of politically motivated exaggerated guesses, but even Hamas seems satisfied with the 40K estimate.  As for Hamas claims the health care system is collapsing, I'm very skeptical. 

The US is frequently accused of excessive civilian deaths.  Taliban and civilian deaths  in Afghanistan were about equal, though, So they did no better than Israel.  As for Russia, unlike Hamas, Hezbollah, and Taliban, the Ukrainian Army does not co-locate with civilians and ensures they are evacuated from the warzone when possible.

[R011]

30 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

No, if it was weak, ICJ would not take case at all and S-Africa would have forced to drop its charges. Genoside case against Isreel is still ongoing in ICJ.

 

You  have no idea about how politics affects things like this, do you?

Quote

No, genoside

Really?  Are you twelve?

 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Holy shit @MiGG0, shilling for Russia... Sorry but I'm gonna just ignore you from now on. You're a lost cause. The sources you quoted are absolutely horrendous as well. Good luck.

[Yama]

2 hours ago, R011 said:

Incidentally, the ICJ effectively dismissed the genocide case against Israel.

On the other hand, they judged Israeli occupation and creation of settlements is illegal.

[Mighty_Zuk]

13 minutes ago, Yama said:

On the other hand, they judged Israeli occupation and creation of settlements is illegal.

I don't think you understand this ruling. In it they also effectively legalized ethnic cleansing and conquest through a war of aggression. You can't take one without the other. All these things are harmful. 

[R011]

Actual international law, and not the bleatings of the hate-Israel crowd, says:

Non combatants may not be targetted.  Israel doesn't do that.  Instances where individual soldiers are alleged to have done this are investigated and, if warranted, prosecuted.

Indiscriminate fire is forbidden, however there's no requirement to avoid collateral damage.  Israel warns civilians to evacuate before starting an operation and uses PGM where ever possible to limit it.

A belligerent is required to ensure the necessities of life are provided for civilians under their control.  Israel does this.  They also ensure it for civilians under Hamas control which they aren't required to do by the laws of war.

 

[MiGG0]

5 minutes ago, R011 said:

1.  As noted, insufficient evidence of genocide to take any actual action, not even an injunction.  If they believed genocide was actually happening, there would be some urgency to do something.

2.  I'm sure there ae lots of politically motivated exaggerated guesses, but even Hamas seems satisfied with the 40K estimate.  As for Hamas claims the health care system is collapsing, I'm very skeptical. 

The US is frequently accused of excessive civilian deaths.  Taliban and civilian deaths  in Afghanistan were about equal, though, So they did no better than Israel.  As for Russia, unlike Hamas, Hezbollah, and Taliban, the Ukrainian Army does not co-locate with civilians and ensures they are evacuated from the warzone when possible.

 

1. "In April, however, Joan Donoghue, the president of the ICJ at the time of that ruling, said in a BBC interview that this was not what the court had ruled.

Rather, she said, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide” - rights which were at a real risk of irreparable damage.

The judges had stressed they did not need to say for now whether a genocide had occurred but concluded that some of the acts South Africa complained about, if they were proven, could fall under the United Nations’ Convention on Genocide." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o

2. Those ~40 more or less are verified by multipla sources. Actaul casualties are more than that. Also : https://civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu/news-stories/news/palestine-statement-attacks-medical-and-civilian-infrastructure-gaza-and-west-bank-2024-05-20_en But ofcourse you think that they are antisemitist. Everyone are that keeps talking Israle genoside. 

I know US accused constantly about it. Point is that nobody has made case about it before or even agaisnt Russia