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Am I the only one who is disconcerted by lack of women conscription in the UKR Army?


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Posted
9 hours ago, Mike1158 said:

Nobody has ever, of course, evaded service in the Russian armed forces.  No doubt they are protected by women too?

     Plenty of people have evaded service in Russia (mostly by using money, not women - as Russia is sort of more well-off country and borders are open). Others are trying to use military service to avoid problems with law. It was anecdotal case recently in Moscow : well known "lawyer" known for his murky deals in some high-profile cases, was arrested for fraud. Interestingly, the man was officially listed as serving as T-80 tank commander in one of former Donetsk militia brigades. No need to tell the man have never actually been in "his unit"....

    Still, unlike in "Ukraine", people are not gangbeaten into mobilization minivans on the streets of Russia ( pro-Russians insist this moment will come soon er or later, but not even close to that at current moment).

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Posted
10 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

  ...

    Still, unlike in "Ukraine", people are not gangbeaten into mobilization minivans on the streets of Russia ( pro-Russians insist this moment will come soon er or later, but not even close to that at current moment).

I am not sure that male population of LNR and DNR would agree with this statement.

Posted
1 hour ago, Pavel Novak said:

I am not sure that male population of LNR and DNR would agree with this statement.

Male population of (former) LNR and DNR are still the backbone of most capable units of Russian Army, despite of being relatively less armed and equiped. 

Posted
16 hours ago, glenn239 said:

The alternative is to not mobilize women, given the conclusion that doing so is not likely to be the difference between victory and defeat for Ukraine.

and how do you know this? Have the Ukrainians done a study on this? 

Posted
48 minutes ago, On the way said:

Have the Ukrainians done a study on this? 

Do you think that is necessary to guess the outcome of the conflict?

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, On the way said:

and how do you know this? Have the Ukrainians done a study on this? 

You're the one suggesting that women be drafted into the Ukrainian military as an act to stave off impending defeat.  Well, what evidence do you have that doing this will prevent defeat?  The Ukrainians are losing because their military is gutted in equipment, they're short of ammunition of all types, their cadre of elite troops has dwindled, their home front is tired of the war an increasingly resistant, their economy is in tatters, the West is losing interest and spare resources, and the conscription sweeps are producing less and less motivated units that have a tendency not to hold when attacked.  So here, you come to Tanknet and say that if the Ukrainians start mobilizing women, while millions of healthy men with the right connections party in dance clubs, that this will make things better and not worse.  Why do you think that?  Isn't this just another strategy Macguffin in a long line of plot devices?

 

Edited by glenn239
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 9/22/2024 at 12:20 PM, Roman Alymov said:

     Plenty of people have evaded service in Russia (mostly by using money, not women - as Russia is sort of more well-off country and borders are open). Others are trying to use military service to avoid problems with law. It was anecdotal case recently in Moscow : well known "lawyer" known for his murky deals in some high-profile cases, was arrested for fraud. Interestingly, the man was officially listed as serving as T-80 tank commander in one of former Donetsk militia brigades. No need to tell the man have never actually been in "his unit"....

    Still, unlike in "Ukraine", people are not gangbeaten into mobilization minivans on the streets of Russia ( pro-Russians insist this moment will come soon er or later, but not even close to that at current moment).

I saw on the news that protesters against the war, were arrested and the tried and send to the frontline. I think this was sometime last year when Russian anti war protests were still a thing. So hard to say the Russains are not gangbeating their own citizens into joining the Army

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

IF a draft doesn't make sense, WHY is Kiev devoting assets to their western borders to prevent evaders?  Rhetorical question.  Enjoy the reality.

 

As a reminder to U.S.-Ukrainian dual nationals, or those who may have a claim to Ukrainian citizenship, Ukraine has eliminated a “residence abroad” exception that previously allowed certain Ukrainian males aged 18 to 60 to depart the country. After this change, U.S.-Ukrainian dual citizens, including those who live in the United States, may no longer be able to depart the country. We strongly recommend against all travel to Ukraine by U.S. citizens, including males aged 18 to 60 who also have Ukrainian citizenship or a claim to Ukrainian citizenship and who do not wish to stay in Ukraine indefinitely. There is an extremely high risk U.S. citizens will not be allowed to depart, even with a U.S. passport. Travelers who are unsure whether they have a claim to Ukrainian citizenship should consult Ukrainian authorities for further guidance. For more information on traveling with dual nationality, please visit our Travelers with Dual Nationality page.
 
Posted (edited)

The question is not whether a draft makes sense in terms of the military situation, the question is whether a draft of 18 year old kids is going to make any difference to the ultimate outcome, or will it simply make the final fall of the Kyiv regime an internal revolt?    Unlike the army of older, obedient, complacent, men, an army of kids is less stable, more dynamic.  It'll solve the manpower crisis, but at the cost of an army that is more willing to turn on its own chain of command if the battlefield conditions are suicidal.   Moreover, if such a revolt started, kids are more likely to join it in a torrent.  

Edited by glenn239
Posted (edited)
On 10/23/2024 at 9:14 AM, glenn239 said:

The question is not whether a draft makes sense in terms of the military situation, the question is whether a draft of 18 year old kids is going to make any difference to the ultimate outcome, or will it simply make the final fall of the Kyiv regime an internal revolt?    Unlike the army of older, obedient, complacent, men, an army of kids is less stable, more dynamic.  It'll solve the manpower crisis, but at the cost of an army that is more willing to turn on its own chain of command if the battlefield conditions are suicidal.   Moreover, if such a revolt started, kids are more likely to join it in a torrent.  

Drafting 18 year olds is what's done in wars throughout history. 

1) Seems like most of the older Ukrainians with experience are now dead or WIA to the point of being non-deployable

and

2) war is a young man's game because it's physically exhausting.

After two years of high intensity combat, the old guy survivors are most likely fried.

Edited by X-Files
Posted
On 9/22/2024 at 5:54 AM, Roman Alymov said:

Probably you base that on best Western practices of converting refugees from Ukraine into sex workers?

By the way, i hope you understand that for Ukrainian men who are hiding in their houses to avoid forced modilization (4-6 millions of men, according to Arestovich if i remember correctly), it is only possible to do it with support of women (mothers, wifes or girlfriends)?  So for every man in hiding there is at least one woman bringing him food etc. It will give you some idea how willing are the people left on Kiev-controlled territory to serve as NATO cannon fodder.

youknow-you.png

Posted

More Ukrainian soldiers have deserted the army this year than ever since the onset of a war that analysts say has seen both sides make gains and report losses.

Prosecutions for desertion from Ukraine’s army are thought to have hit at least 30,000 – quite possibly much more – already this year. This is several times the number in 2022, the year the war began when citizens and foreigners voluntarily poured into the military to push Russia back.

Why is Ukraine’s army facing a desertion crisis? | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

Posted

The journey of thousands of young Ukrainian deserters: Tight border controls and perilous mountains

More than 40,000 Ukrainians have fled since the start of the war to avoid going to the front despite martial law being in force, which prohibits men between the ages of 18 and 60 from leaving the country

The journey of thousands of young Ukrainian deserters: Tight border controls and perilous mountains | International | EL PAÍS English

Posted

Has the Ukrainian economy been able to get into "Rosie the Riveter" mode?

Omar Bradley and all that...

 

Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, X-Files said:

Drafting 18 year olds is what's done in wars throughout history. 

True, but it also tends to be the 18 year olds that will frag their officers and overthrow the government if they get pissed off at their working conditions.  Say, like if they're being killed 5:1.   So, uppsies and downsies.

In this case, I don't think Ukrainian moms and dads are in a mood to continue to feed Zelensky's addiction for cannon fodder.

Edited by glenn239
Posted
2 hours ago, glenn239 said:

True, but it also tends to be the 18 year olds that will frag their officers and overthrow the government if they get pissed off at their working conditions.  Say, like if they're being killed 5:1.   So, uppsies and downsies.

You have in-uniform experience with such?

Posted
29 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

replying to Ivanhoe:

If the Ukranians need an Omar Bradley mentality then they are in more trouble than news reports indicate.  A mediocre officer with a talent for self promotion

I'm sorry to ask but what is "Omar Bradley mentality "?  Internet is giving a lot od his quotes (see 25 Notable Quotes By Omar Bradley ) but nothing is actually special, just another successful WWII general.....

Posted

General Bradley was an acrimonious, self righteous, average infantry commander whose claims to fame rest on war correspondent Ernie Pyle's glorification of him as a GI General when nothing could be further from the truth.  Bradley took troops trained up by Patton and did reasonably well in North Africa.  Then in Sicily he moved slowly and cautiously (relative to Patton's wishes, the actual advance wasn't terrible).  After Patton's slapping incident Bradley got the nod and took Montgomery's suggestion and became the hero of Cobra when the reality was that tac air cover and unleashing the Armored Divisions are really what made it all work.  Along the way Bradley was an adequate administrator without any flair who was unnecessarily hard on subordinates.  

I'm a Patton guy so I am biased but Bradley just never did anything to justify his reputation.  It's all a tall tale by Pyle.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

General Bradley was an acrimonious, self righteous, average infantry commander whose claims to fame rest on war correspondent Ernie Pyle's glorification of him as a GI General when nothing could be further from the truth.  Bradley took troops trained up by Patton and did reasonably well in North Africa.  Then in Sicily he moved slowly and cautiously (relative to Patton's wishes, the actual advance wasn't terrible).  After Patton's slapping incident Bradley got the nod and took Montgomery's suggestion and became the hero of Cobra when the reality was that tac air cover and unleashing the Armored Divisions are really what made it all work.  Along the way Bradley was an adequate administrator without any flair who was unnecessarily hard on subordinates.  

I'm a Patton guy so I am biased but Bradley just never did anything to justify his reputation.  It's all a tall tale by Pyle.

Thank you! So "GI General" is positive reputation?

    Interesting you consider General Bradley to be infantry commander while as i see from Rus Wiki is saying his wiews were shaped during his West Point years when he was math professor and he was mostly admirer of US Civil War cavalry deep operations..... 

Posted
6 hours ago, X-Files said:

You have in-uniform experience with such?

It's like our conversation in 2022 about the feasibility of training huge numbers of Ukrainians from scratch.  We'll see what happens.

Posted
22 hours ago, glenn239 said:

It's like our conversation in 2022 about the feasibility of training huge numbers of Ukrainians from scratch.  We'll see what happens.

 

That's not what I asked you, but ok - I see you.

Posted
On 10/26/2024 at 9:38 PM, Roman Alymov said:

Photo ond video of pro-Ukr women taken POW somewhere in Kursk region (described to be MG gunner, the man she is handcuffed to is reportedly her aid) https://t.me/apwagner/30202

P.S. Intervew with the same woman (in captivity) - native of small village in Sumy region, signed into UkrArmy volunterally out of powerty (as far as i understand, as she is saying there is no work in her village and no men of young or middle age left, all recruited or left), was promised to be cook but was put on rifleman position, trained in England, spent some time "on third line" in Donbass before being sent to Kursk

https://t.me/dva_majors/56103

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