Giorgia Meloni

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 5/16/2025 at 4:06 PM, urbanoid said:

Automation and AI, I guess. Plus obviously political side of it, if we have to change the economic model somewhat, too bad. 

I don't care about 'number going up' nearly as much as I care about having a nice homogenous country. 

Indeed, to the point where we are going to be sustaining and increasingly non working underclass, sustained by taxation by the working and super rich class. Thats going to be a fun debate when we get to it, because nobody is ready for that one.

[urbanoid]

5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Indeed, to the point where we are going to be sustaining and increasingly non working underclass, sustained by taxation by the working and super rich class. Thats going to be a fun debate when we get to it, because nobody is ready for that one.

Then maybe don't import more of said underclass. Preferably get rid of those already imported. That will make things easier. 

[bojan]

7 hours ago, old_goat said:

...We need domestic agriculture, so we could get rid of food import...

Whole idea of Hungary of all places having significant food import is really bonkers.

[Stuart Galbraith]

13 hours ago, urbanoid said:

Then maybe don't import more of said underclass. Preferably get rid of those already imported. That will make things easier. 

 

 its very easy to say 'dont Import more people' if you ignore your vital services go to shit because you dont have enough people to make them work.  And you cant say 'well pay more then', because we already have the problem were we have to rebuild defence, invest in vital services that were neglected (not least prisons), AND rebuild national infrastructure like roads that were allowed to go to ratshit for the better part of 20 years. There is not enough money to go round.

Im not defending it, and I dont like open borders either. I know what the result will be if we ever slam the door, and so does anyone that doesnt think about it through ideology for 5 minutes. Until we all invent personal robots, this is the system we are stuck with.

 

[urbanoid]

10 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

 its very easy to say 'dont Import more people' if you ignore your vital services go to shit because you dont have enough people to make them work.  And you cant say 'well pay more then', because we already have the problem were we have to rebuild defence, invest in vital services that were neglected (not least prisons), AND rebuild national infrastructure like roads that were allowed to go to ratshit for the better part of 20 years. There is not enough money to go round.

Im not defending it, and I dont like open borders either. I know what the result will be if we ever slam the door, and so does anyone that doesnt think about it through ideology for 5 minutes. Until we all invent personal robots, this is the system we are stuck with.

 

Now listen to the king of DEI, a shitlib extraordinaire.

 

 

[old_goat]

15 hours ago, bojan said:

Whole idea of Hungary of all places having significant food import is really bonkers.

Its indeed crazy... Back in the communist era, the country was not only self-sustaining, but there was a not-insignificant food export too... But instead of supporting local agriculture, the regime invites the extremely polluting car battery industry...

[17thfabn]

14 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

 its very easy to say 'dont Import more people' if you ignore your vital services go to shit because you dont have enough people to make them work.  And you cant say 'well pay more then', because we already have the problem were we have to rebuild defence, invest in vital services that were neglected (not least prisons), AND rebuild national infrastructure like roads that were allowed to go to ratshit for the better part of 20 years. There is not enough money to go round.

There is a difference between open borders and letting in select individuals with high demand skills. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

19 hours ago, urbanoid said:

Now listen to the king of DEI, a shitlib extraordinaire.

 

 

If in the next 30 years there is a major development in robots and AI that can fill in for all the plebs we import, he is probably right. If he isnt, we face collapsing hospitals and healthcare only for the superrich. And we will still have potholes in the roads.

Here is a thing I was looking up yesterday, and its worth thinking about. Britain today has a birthrate of 1.49. The birthrate of Poland is 1.26. We are already on top of this problem because we have an aging population base. Just wait till you hit yours.

[Stuart Galbraith]

6 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

There is a difference between open borders and letting in select individuals with high demand skills. 

Yes, absolutely. Id happily have open doors for high demand skills. But I still need someone to pump my gas.

(although self service is mainly a thing these days.)

[urbanoid]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

If in the next 30 years there is a major development in robots and AI that can fill in for all the plebs we import, he is probably right. If he isnt, we face collapsing hospitals and healthcare only for the superrich. And we will still have potholes in the roads.

Here is a thing I was looking up yesterday, and its worth thinking about. Britain today has a birthrate of 1.49. The birthrate of Poland is 1.26. We are already on top of this problem because we have an aging population base. Just wait till you hit yours.

A lot of those developments are already here. Yurop (and the US) are quite pathetic when it comes to e.g. industrial robots density when compared to East Asia, which has on average even worse demographic situation.

And yes, I know what awaits Poland demographically and I'm still not going to approve of third world migration, even if it means that we end up poorer.

[Stuart Galbraith]

4 hours ago, urbanoid said:

A lot of those developments are already here. Yurop (and the US) are quite pathetic when it comes to e.g. industrial robots density when compared to East Asia, which has on average even worse demographic situation.

And yes, I know what awaits Poland demographically and I'm still not going to approve of third world migration, even if it means that we end up poorer.

Im not saying you will end up poorer, although thats certainly a possiblity. Im saying that large chunks of the state wont be working anymore, because nobody will be doing those jobs.

Of course robots are the obvious solutions to many of these problems. The problem is you just know that when we go down that road, we are going to end up replacing not just the jobs we dont want to do, but all the jobs that people are depending upon in the space of a generation. Thats going to require going back to some kind of socialism to cover for everyone that is suddenly out of work.

Mankind at last set free? Or rather like 2000AD has predicted, just another kind of hell we are making for ourselves?

[urbanoid]

17 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im not saying you will end up poorer, although thats certainly a possiblity. Im saying that large chunks of the state wont be working anymore, because nobody will be doing those jobs.

Of course robots are the obvious solutions to many of these problems. The problem is you just know that when we go down that road, we are going to end up replacing not just the jobs we dont want to do, but all the jobs that people are depending upon in the space of a generation. Thats going to require going back to some kind of socialism to cover for everyone that is suddenly out of work.

Mankind at last set free? Or rather like 2000AD has predicted, just another kind of hell we are making for ourselves?

Yes, we'll likely replace (or at least be capable of replacing) more jobs than just those that the 'excess population of the undesirables' hold. That means even less incentive to let more of them come or to let those already in stay.

I wouldn't say jobs won't be done, even with shortages. E.g. I read an article saying that we're short of 200-300k... cashiers. So what? It's ridiculously easy to install self-checkouts instead and the alleged shortage hasn't impacted us in any meaningful way. A lot of people work transporting things, another area where things can be automated, there are already promising solutions in existence. In the end the developed world should be able to even bring most of the industry back from fuck knows where and... still have unemployment, even after getting rid of the undesirables.

[rmgill]

On 5/17/2025 at 5:13 PM, urbanoid said:

Then maybe don't import more of said underclass. Preferably get rid of those already imported. That will make things easier. 

No, see, by having more diversity, they look better and they can allay their white guilt by paying stipends to underclass on the dole from the third world. 

DIVERSITY is their Strength!

[old_goat]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im not saying you will end up poorer, although thats certainly a possiblity. Im saying that large chunks of the state wont be working anymore, because nobody will be doing those jobs.

Of course robots are the obvious solutions to many of these problems. The problem is you just know that when we go down that road, we are going to end up replacing not just the jobs we dont want to do, but all the jobs that people are depending upon in the space of a generation. Thats going to require going back to some kind of socialism to cover for everyone that is suddenly out of work.

Or simply drop the globalist approach... According to many economists, you do not need to have constantly growing GDP to have high living standards. Use the workforce more efficiently. Also you do not need that many multinational corporations that require lots of imported people, but pump out the vast majority profits to a different country. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Thats a very easy thing to say for countries that have achieved a consistantly higher level of growth for the last 25 years than we have.

 

[rmgill]

Import another million that need public assistance and add costs to the NHS. I am sure that will help your growth. 

[urbanoid]

10 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Import another million that need public assistance and add costs to the NHS. I am sure that will help your growth. 

*another ten million

[Stuart Galbraith]

18 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Import another million that need public assistance and add costs to the NHS. I am sure that will help your growth. 

Sure, so let's save the NHS by denying it the manpower it needs to function. Brilliant.

[seahawk]

Not every goat herder can work in the NHS - well, I hope.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Trollys dont push themselves. Maybe in 20 years they will, but until then you need manpower to function. I dont like it, I dont defend it. It is nonetheless a fact.

Even the Army is made up of a large contingent from the Commonwealth, because we cant convince enough of our own young people to become bullet magnets, Incomprehensible I know, but there we are. One supposes Ryan here would leap at the chance of complaining about the increasing decline in the size of the British Army, at the same pace as he complains about immigration, without ever imagining such things are ever related.

 

[urbanoid]

44 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Trollys dont push themselves. Maybe in 20 years they will, but until then you need manpower to function. I dont like it, I dont defend it. It is nonetheless a fact.

Even the Army is made up of a large contingent from the Commonwealth, because we cant convince enough of our own young people to become bullet magnets, Incomprehensible I know, but there we are. One supposes Ryan here would leap at the chance of complaining about the increasing decline in the size of the British Army, at the same pace as he complains about immigration, without ever imagining such things are ever related.

 

They could, you know. Push themselves, that is. Infinite supply of cheap labor makes less incentive to make them do so, unsurprisingly.

Yeah, if my country had transformed itself in a way very detrimental to me as a native, joining its armed forces would be the last thing on my mind. 

[seahawk]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Trollys dont push themselves. Maybe in 20 years they will, but until then you need manpower to function. I dont like it, I dont defend it. It is nonetheless a fact.

Even the Army is made up of a large contingent from the Commonwealth, because we cant convince enough of our own young people to become bullet magnets, Incomprehensible I know, but there we are. One supposes Ryan here would leap at the chance of complaining about the increasing decline in the size of the British Army, at the same pace as he complains about immigration, without ever imagining such things are ever related.

 

But trolly-pushers do not heal people. I totally get the idea of allowing skilled labour to immigrate. Those people usually integrate easily and are a net gain for society. But the reality is that we import unskilled people, that not only will cost society money their whole life, they will also spawn many children, refuse to integrate and despise Western society.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Over the last 10 years Ive spent a lot of time in hospitals due to both my parents being ill with cancer. ive seen how the system works. the vast majority of people in them doing the low end jobs are immigrants, because they are shitty, poorly paid, bad hours jobs that nobody else does. Yes, one can mandate on high all that manpower goes away. Fine. Now what do you do, when the cabinets are not refilled, the floors are not swabbed, and you dont have enough nurses?

IMHO we take too many nurses that should be working in the third world anyway. So training up more of our own people makes perfect sense, other than there isnt enough money to pay them what they are worth, the hours are shitty and hence nobody wants to do it. How do you fix that? Short of somehow coming up with robots to do all these jobs, or somehow encouraging an unpaid militia of retirees which wont appear, you need immigrants to do them. 

You dont like it, I dont like it, but im not hearing alternatives.

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

They could, you know. Push themselves, that is. Infinite supply of cheap labor makes less incentive to make them do so, unsurprisingly.

Yeah, if my country had transformed itself in a way very detrimental to me as a native, joining its armed forces would be the last thing on my mind. 

We already have corridors of sick people waiting to see consultants. the idea they need to push their own trolleys when some of them are even beyond walking, to me strikes me as a bit much.

But hey, im the token Tanknet liberal walley, of course im going to object to such things as a matter of principle. Silly me.

[old_goat]

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

We already have corridors of sick people waiting to see consultants. the idea they need to push their own trolleys when some of them are even beyond walking, to me strikes me as a bit much.

You are narrowing and oversimplifying the problem. It is not the healthcare that fuels the immigration. It is the globalist industry. They need vastly more workers. Solution is very simple. Get rid of globalists, and establish a nationalist economy. That immediately reduces the need for workers, curbs inflation, and this is what actually make a country richer. 

Of course, mentioning "nationalism" makes you and people like you scream "naziiiiii!", so I understand why you dont have any alternatives over the Great Replacement.