Catastrophe in Baltimore

[Stuart Galbraith]

Cheers, Ill be sure to watch it if it ever comes up on Netflix.

[Ssnake]

Or get the DVD box set for cheap; not really necessary to go for Bluray (though they seem to have released a remastered BR box recently).

[Stuart Galbraith]

Cheers. 👍

 

I dont think anyone has posted this one before.  Ward Carroll got a maritime expert on his channel to explain his take on what happened. His observation that from the smoke plume they tried to get the engines restarted is pretty interesting as is his noting how stiff the breeze was.

 

Edited March 29, 2024 by Stuart Galbraith

[Steven P Allen]

I do not want to turn this thread political:  this could be true of most presidents.

I really object to President Biden pledging to use federal funds to replace the bridge.  I really think Maryland ought to put money in that kitty.  However important that bridge is to them, it's not very important to most other USians. 

It's another case of using money to try to assuage people's fears and grief and also to buy votes. 

Again, I don't think it's a Biden thing:  it's a politician thing.

[sunday]

Looks unusual to pledge public funds before the insurance companies have even started their investigations, yes.

[Ssnake]

Baltimore has an important role in US shipping, with effects reaching far beyond Maryland. So, at least clearing up the shipping lane seems to justify some expense of federal tax dollars, at a first glance.

 

The bridge itself may be a local/regional responsibility, though the bridge is actually part of a federal highway, so....

Interstate 695 seems to be part of I95; whether a local bypass should count as a part of the federal interstate, I don't know.

[sunday]

That does not means that the insurers must get scot-free without paying anything, and it could be likely that Biden statement would be understood in that sense.

We will see.

[Ssnake]

The way I understand bureaucracies, they will eventually claw back what they can from the insurance company; realistically though, that won't cover the full cost of reconstruction.

[sunday]

5 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

The way I understand bureaucracies, they will eventually claw back what they can from the insurance company; realistically though, that won't cover the full cost of reconstruction.

Estimates of costs for new bridge are on the $400-$800 million range. Damages to businesses, and the general economy, because of delays and cutting of routes are likely to be three to four times the lower figure.

Edited March 29, 2024 by sunday

[Stuart Galbraith]

Ive heard estimates that this make cost the US 10 Billion dollars before they unblock the port. So you can kind of understand Biden being keen to unblock the mess. The actual costs are going to be far higher than what the Federal Government lays day. For one thing, the port is the the primary port of entry to the US for several products. Its the primary embarkation points for cars being exported.

[Steven P Allen]

Unblocking the channel and building a new bridge are different issues.

Even Interstates are partially funded by the states they are in.  A big local project on I44 is funded in large part by MODoT.

As an aside, the two-year-long mess has cost more container/trailer loads in accidents than the Baltimore shipwreck has cost.  Most recent one was a semi-load of eggs.  At the current $4/dozen, that was quite an expensive load of food, all wasted.

[Harold Jones]

The mix of local and fed funding is why we have interstate highways that are also toll roads.  I think Biden's mouth out-paced his brain as is pretty common with him.  I suspect the usual walk back by someone in the administration is on hold pending the polling.

[Ivanhoe]

29 minutes ago, Harold Jones said:

The mix of local and fed funding is why we have interstate highways that are also toll roads.  I think Biden's mouth out-paced his brain as is pretty common with him.  I suspect the usual walk back by someone in the administration is on hold pending the polling.

Once he inserted himself into the story, federal funds were guaranteed to be committed.

Given that, I'd be surprised if any involved insurance companies actually pay off. Why pay out when you know Uncle Sugar is going to cover demolition and reconstruction?

[sunday]

Expert comment on the NTSB video, plus hints of other expert youtubers.

 

Edited March 29, 2024 by sunday

[rmgill]

Apparently that road route is the main path for Haz Mat shipments through the region. Not being permitted up the tunnels under the harbor, etc. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

They might have to rethink that. In the Dartford tunnel, they can allow fuel tankers through, but they stop the traffic and I think they get an escort through. You could do something like that. Might cause tailbacks, but hey, you are going to get that anyway. Embrace the mindfuck.

I dont know whether its right to have Federal or State funding, I will say now they have the US Navy now taking part and its been decided its seemingly a national emergency, its all rather academic. As you will hear from the Carroll video, there is stuff going in and out of there that doestn go to other US ports. You arent going to change those trade flows overnight, particularly if they have specialized handling equipment. You can make a plausible case this is a national emergency, not just a local one.

[sunday]

4 hours ago, rmgill said:

Apparently that road route is the main path for Haz Mat shipments through the region. Not being permitted up the tunnels under the harbor, etc. 

It seems there is a inshore ring road, but it is slower.

[Ivanhoe]

12 hours ago, rmgill said:

Apparently that road route is the main path for Haz Mat shipments through the region. Not being permitted up the tunnels under the harbor, etc. 

The four tunnels in Hampton Roads routinely have HAZMAT trucked through. There are regulations;

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title24/agency30/chapter61/section40/

One of the problems with most tunnels is they don't plan for inspection stations at either end.

[Allan W]

18 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Once he inserted himself into the story, federal funds were guaranteed to be committed.

Given that, I'd be surprised if any involved insurance companies actually pay off. Why pay out when you know Uncle Sugar is going to cover demolition and reconstruction?

In return for receiving federal funds, the insured would assign their right to collect on their insurance and to pursue claims against any 3rd party to the federal government.   Subrogation agreements like this are quite common.

[Markus Becker]

9 hours ago, sunday said:

It seems there is a inshore ring road, but it is slower.

How was stuff transported before the bridge? The long way around or was there a ferry service? 

[sunday]

1 hour ago, Markus Becker said:

How was stuff transported before the bridge? The long way around or was there a ferry service? 

Dunno, but as Baltimore is at the deep end of Chesapeake Bay, probably the long way around is not so long in comparison with the equivalent for Norfolk or Virginia Beach.

[Ivanhoe]

There is a FB account named "Deadrise Marine Photography" that has some clear pics of the work being done.

 

[sunday]

Last news, gas pipeline possibly affected, and more than you ever want to know about maritime insurance

 

[Ivanhoe]

https://nypost.com/2015/02/08/the-epic-legal-battle-lincoln-waged-over-a-bridge/

Quote

The 1857 trial “Hurd et al. v. The Railroad Bridge Company” required the defense to convince the court that the bridge was not a “material obstruction” to the navigation of steamboats. As witnesses were questioned and cross-examined, one observer noted that Lincoln, who “took part in more than 5,200 cases” over the course of his career, had a supremely sharp grasp of trial minutia.

.

Quote

The case ended with a 9-3 jury vote in favor of the bridge owners. Since the vote wasn’t unanimous, the trial ended in a hung jury. As this denied the steamboat owners their relief, it was, effectively, a victory for the bridge owners. Several years of appeals followed, and the case made its way to the Supreme Court. Ultimately, the bridge owners’ victory was affirmed and railroads overtook steamboats as the nation’s primary method of transportation.

 

[sunday]

Civil engineer, with experience in bridge building, on several aspects of the reconstruction of the bridge, from bridge type to financing, through geotechnics and environmental issues.

 

Edited April 2, 2024 by sunday