Masters of the Air

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, I saw a clip of For all Mankind, featuring the KAL007 shootdown. I thought that was pretty well done actually.

Oh well, keep us informed. I might give it a punt if they bring it out on DVD. I like collecting series I like. Ive had Band of Brothers in the tin for the last 20 years, I probably ought to dust it off and watch it again and see if it still stands up.

[Der Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Ive had Band of Brothers in the tin for the last 20 years, I probably ought to dust it off and watch it again and see if it still stands up.

It totally does. I got it on BluRay a few weeks ago and rewatched it after almost 20 years.

Found it even better this time. The older you get and further into your own career and job experience, the more you appreciate the different nuances of good and bad leadership the show portrays. I also liked the way the series ends much more than last time I watched it. Showing the slow but steady change from combat to occupation duty, where tons of soldiers are still getting killed in stupid car crashes or other accidents was a very interesting touch. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Der Zeitgeist

[Stuart Galbraith]

Incidentally, found this thought provoking.

 

[Angrybk]

The series does feel really disjointed, like some experts and some idiots worked on it at the same time 

[Angrybk]

5 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

It totally does. I got it on BluRay a few weeks ago and rewatched it after almost 20 years.

Found it even better this time. The older you get and further into your own career and job experience, the more you appreciate the different nuances of good and bad leadership the show portrays. I also liked the way the series ends much more than last time I watched it. Showing the slow but steady change from combat to occupation duty, where tons of soldiers are still getting killed in stupid car crashes or other accidents was a very interesting touch. 

Yeah it really holds up -- like you said, it's a great demonstration of various kinds of leadership. A lot of why I read WW2 books is to get some insights on that kind of stuff. 

[bojan]

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

They didnt really use Do17's as nightfighters...

They did early on, IIRC Z-7 and Z-10 version. Also Do.215, which were export version of Z series and looked practically the same as 17s.

Edited January 28, 2024 by bojan

[rmgill]

9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Incidentally, found this thought provoking.

 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/microfilm/m1380.pdf

https://www.archives.gov/research/military/ww2/missing-air-crew-reports

[sunday]

On 1/28/2024 at 6:10 AM, Ssnake said:

While you're at it, might just as well try For All Mankind. Superb, if you like Space Stuff.

In running time, it is 10% of space stuff, 90% of touchy-feely, woke, LGBT soap opera. That is only the first seven episodes. Reviewers state that the second and third seasons have even less space stuff.

So...

[Stuart Galbraith]

8 hours ago, bojan said:

They did early on, IIRC Z-7 and Z-10 version. Also Do.215, which were export version of Z series and looked practically the same as 17s.

Thats funny, I dont remember Aders mentioning that in his book on the nightfighter force. Not that I doubt it, they were using lots of strange aircraft, including early pattern Me110's. It was a real cinderella service at the start of the war.

[bojan]

Do.215b-5

17z-7

z-10

 

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, I dont doubt you. Im surprised they survived in service long enough to get Lichtenstein though.

Thanks for that.

[JustinEF]

Its up on YouTube and was able to slow it down enough 110s for sure.  Nice touch, always really liked that aircraft despite its poor reputation as a day fighter from the BOB on.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by JustinEF

[LT Ducky]

Not impressed with the dialogue especially the intercom chatter.

And at the end of the clip it shows the #2 engine winding down turning in a clockwise direction when viewed from the front……..

[rmgill]

Was that winding down or feathered? I had to go look at the spin direction in normal ops. But I wonder if it's feathered will it have a bit of windmilling due to the inherent twist in the blades. 

 

[Josh]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:21 AM, Der Zeitgeist said:

Yes, but compared with BoB it's a very different series, showing different aspects of war in a theatre where combat was dramatically different compared with Europe. The Pacific is a more introspective show, focusing on what it does to people's minds when they spend weeks or months on a battlefield wading through mud filled with feces and body parts and faced with an enemy who doesn't surrender so you often had to kill literally every last one of them.

That "The Pacific" shows this in a completely uncompromising way was quite gutsy and I always respected the creators for that.

------------------------------

Concerning Masters of the Air:

I had a bad feeling when I saw the trailers (cheesy characters, cheesy dialogue, cheesy CGI) and what I've read so far seems to confirm this. 

I always thought the best sum up of the Pacific was when the Lecky character goes home post war and is getting a ride from cabby who was in Normandy. The cabby says the ride is free, and when Lecky protests that the cabby himself was in the war too, he says something to the effect of 'we were welcomed as heros by French chicks and you guys were in the jungle sitting in your own shit' (extreme paraphrasing on my part).

[Josh]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:12 AM, Der Zeitgeist said:

One thing I noticed is when they call out being attacked by Ju 88s, it's actually Bf 110s. Don't know if that's intentional (crews misidentifying aircraft) or a production goof. 

One thing I liked about BoB is little details like the 105mm position they took second episode being misidentified as 88s in their briefing.

[Josh]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:11 AM, Stuart Galbraith said:

Yeah, I saw a clip of For all Mankind, featuring the KAL007 shootdown. I thought that was pretty well done actually.

Oh well, keep us informed. I might give it a punt if they bring it out on DVD. I like collecting series I like. Ive had Band of Brothers in the tin for the last 20 years, I probably ought to dust it off and watch it again and see if it still stands up.

I just backed to backed BoB and Pacific two months ago; they totally were excellent and do not age (since the source material is old anyway). I picked up new details rewatching them. They both had the benefit of being based on actual units/people though, which this new one apparently does not.

[rmgill]

Many things were misidentified. How many times did a Panzer IV Ausf H get ID'd as a Tiger after it had punched a hole in the side of a Sherman with it's long barreled 7.5cm gun? 

With the spaced armor and the general shape they're very similar in silhouette. 

[Josh]

I don't have Apple+ so I'm not going to end up seeing this any time soon. I have however watched the already released AI porn version, "Masterbators Of The Air". 

[LT Ducky]

11 hours ago, rmgill said:

Was that winding down or feathered? I had to go look at the spin direction in normal ops. But I wonder if it's feathered will it have a bit of windmilling due to the inherent twist in the blades. 

 

#1 was shown as feathered but still rotating slowly in the wrong direction. I’m not an expert on feathered engines but I’ve never seen film of a feathered engine rotating - the whole reason for feathering an engine is to stop the rotation.

As for the engines turning in the wrong direction - perhaps the animators were British; most British WWII aircraft engines rotated clockwise when viewed from the front……..

[TonyE]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:31 PM, JustinEF said:

Can confirm these are 110s, just went and re-watched it and they have twin tails, have to pause it at the right moment happens so fast couldn't tell otherwise.  So either 110s or maybe DO17 night fighters.  I bet aircraft were misidentified all the time.  Would be interesting to find out how much these episodes were modeled on actual missions.  I wonder if they went so far as to find the report from the Mission and they reported being attached by JU-88s and checked Luftwaffe records and found it was actually 110s.  I am not sure what squadron disposition was at that time in Norway.  I remember reading one instance of 110 Night Fighters being used in the daytime for defense later in the war and sounds like they were pretty nasty until the escorts showed up and got quickly thrashed........or it was just production error but with all the CGI available instead of having to find real aircraft just seems like that would be a big miss.

There were a small number of Ju-88C (the fighter variant) in Norway during WW2 and usually a number of BF-110s, including nightfighters.

[bojan]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:48 PM, Stuart Galbraith said:

... Im surprised they survived in service long enough to get Lichtenstein though.

Some survived until late 1944...

[rmgill]

I wonder if we'll see gunship variants....
 

 

[Harold Jones]

Probably not, wiki says they were assigned to the 92nd group.  They may have been in missions also flown by the 100th but none would have been flown by or even likely seen by the point of view characters.  Of course they might get a mention in a target briefing or something.

[rmgill]

I guess we should see the G models shown up with the chin turret. 
 

Huh. I just thought about the B-17 G and had a flash back to my childhood of some art of a formation. I don’t think its this one. But its not dissimilar. 

 

Still give me goose bumps to think about.