Operation "Unthinkable"

[Perun]

"Operation Unthinkable was the name given to two related possible future war plans developed by the British Chiefs of Staff Committee against the USSR during 1945. The plans were never implemented. The creation of the plans was ordered by British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in May 1945 and developed by the British Armed Forces' Joint Planning Staff in May 1945 at the end of World War II in Europe.

One plan assumed a surprise attack on the Soviet forces stationed in Germany to impose "the will of the United States and British Empire" on the Soviets. "The will" was qualified as "a square deal for Poland", which probably meant enforcing the recently signed Yalta Agreement. The planners decided that without American help, the British would probably fail."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

 

I want to find more data on equipment and quantity and will post what I found so far. It is interesting scenario for wargaming at least to say. 

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Операция_«Немыслимое»#/media/Файл%3AAllied_army_positions_on_10_May_1945.png

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Allied_army_positions_on_10_May_1945.png

Edited February 2 by Perun

[Perun]

RAF numbers for 31st August 1945.:

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/raf-strength-august-1945.61978/

Edited January 6 by Perun

[Perun]

USAAF 1945.:

http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090608-042.pdf

same book but could be downloaded here

https://web.archive.org/web/20120127073834/http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090608-042.pdf

[Perun]

VVS (FA and PVO) 1945.:

ВОЕННАЯ ЛИТЕРАТУРА --[ Военная история ]-- Советская авиация в Великой Отечественной войне 1941-1945 гг. в цифрах

ВОЕННАЯ ЛИТЕРАТУРА --[ Военная история ]-- Советская авиация в Великой Отечественной войне 1941-1945 гг. в цифрах

http://militera.lib.ru/h/sovaviation/index.html

Edited January 6 by Perun

[Perun]

It would be countinued with new data soon...

[LouieD]

@Perun

At the National Archives

CAB 120/691    Contingency planning against possible Russian aggression: Operation UNTHINKABLE [papers 22 May - 11 July 1945]; preliminary Anglo-US staff talks on Russian threat in Europe [papers 30 August 1946 - 3 February 1947]
        1945 May-1947 Feb
 

[Perun]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:34 AM, LouieD said:

@Perun

At the National Archives

CAB 120/691    Contingency planning against possible Russian aggression: Operation UNTHINKABLE [papers 22 May - 11 July 1945]; preliminary Anglo-US staff talks on Russian threat in Europe [papers 30 August 1946 - 3 February 1947]
        1945 May-1947 Feb
 

Thanks mate 🙂

As usual your coments are wery welcomed and useful. Do you have pdf version, maybe?

I only found picture version

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C378155

[LouieD]

19 hours ago, Perun said:

Thanks mate 🙂

As usual your coments are wery welcomed and useful. Do you have pdf version, maybe?

I only found picture version

 

No, hadn't had time to order it yet.

[Perun]

USAAF:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120127073834/http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090608-042.pdf

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=171599

US Army tank strength 1945.:

and:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=130334

and:

http://www.niehorster.org/013_usa/44-06-06_Neptune/44_tank-strengths/_tank-strengths.html

this last is for 1944., it can be usefull

Edited February 1 by Perun

[Perun]

RAF 1945.:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/raf-strength-nov44-may45.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/raf-strength-nov44-may45.jpg

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=171599

strength in squadrons

British army tank stength:

 

 

[Perun]

Soviet tank strength 1945.:

https://publicism.info/history/armored/9.html

 

[Perun]

comparative technical characteristics of tanks

[RETAC21]

2 hours ago, Perun said:

Soviet tank strength 1945.:

https://publicism.info/history/armored/9.html

 

These are very squishy numbers, what is war's end? Sept 45 or May? Also, aggregating T-34s and IS without distinction of types is, at least, misleading.

EDITED TO ADD: Ok, these numbers come from Zaloga's Osprey volumes. Moving a bit, the Soviet tank inventory in 1947 was:

T-34/76: 2000

T-34/85+T-44: 15460

IS-2/3/4: 2780

US Lend lease: 160 M3/M5 Stuart, 585 M4A2 Sherman

Everything else (captured German tanks, obsolete stuff): 2855

Production Sep-1945-1947 (deduct them for Operation Unthinkable 1945)

IS-3: 1878

IS-4: 52

T-34/85: 5742

T-44: 1053

 

 

Edited February 1 by RETAC21

[Perun]

My premise was that war starts during 1945. as planed in plan "Unthinkable".

I have found more sources and all of them agree on low Soviet numbers, both equipment and man.

 

[Perun]

In theory according TOE a Soviet ID have 9400 men the Guards was in general better but some regulars was also good.
In 1945 they have 4500 - 7500 mens in general 5500 in fact a big Brigade ; in April to attack Koenigsberg IDs of the 3th Belorussian Front have 2500 ! - 4000 men they had received very few replacements, IDs used in Berlin Operation was in better conditions

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=128745&start=30

[Perun]

Avarage strength of Soviet infantry division:

winter 1941/42 - 5700

winter 1942/43 - 6000

...

In ETO 1945 - 5100 men avarage

Средний численный состав стрелковых дивизий 1941—1945 гг.

Кампании              тыс. чел.

Зимняя 1941/42           5,7
Зимняя 1942/43           6,0
Летне-осенняя 1943       5,5
Зимне-весенняя 1944      5,0
Летне-осенняя 1944       6,0
В Европе 1945            5,1

https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/54925.html

Edited February 1 by Perun

[Perun]

[Perun]

[urbanoid]

I prefer the total war version

[Perun]

Operation "Unthinkable"

 

https://archive.org/download/JonathanWalkerOperationUnthinkable2013/Jonathan Walker - Operation Unthinkable - 2013.pdf

[Perun]