European languages circa 600AD

[Ivanhoe]

Aside from the typo, an interesting graphic. Interesting to see those small little pockets of differential languages such as Burgungian.

 

 

 

[futon]

Gothic sounds neat. Intetesting how its last years in Spain as a church language given its origins Denmark, along with the rest of Goth people history.

[lucklucky]

No Latin?

[sunday]

Romance languages were Latin-based. Probably Latin only survived by then in monasteries and the like, in the written form, and was spoken in Catholic ceremonies.

[BansheeOne]

3 hours ago, futon said:

Gothic sounds neat. Intetesting how its last years in Spain as a church language given its origins Denmark, along with the rest of Goth people history.

Though it's not labeled, you'll find Crimean Gothic on the map, too, which may have lasted into the 17th or 18th century.

[lucklucky]

59 minutes ago, sunday said:

Romance languages were Latin-based. Probably Latin only survived by then in monasteries and the like, in the written form, and was spoken in Catholic ceremonies.

 By 600 AD already Latin vanished? It seems a very short time.

[sunday]

8 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

 By 600 AD already Latin vanished? It seems a very short time.

Rome fell in 476 AD. One hundred years, without mass media nor printing press, is a long time for a spoken language to evolve.

Edited November 6, 2023 by sunday

[futon]

30 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

Though it's not labeled, you'll find Crimean Gothic on the map, too, which may have lasted into the 17th or 18th century.

Almost made to the safety net times where endangered languages get put on life support programs. 

[Yama]

3 hours ago, lucklucky said:

 By 600 AD already Latin vanished? It seems a very short time.

Step from 'dialect' to 'language' is a fluid one, but we do know from historical sources that by 800AD, classical Latin was incomprehensible for regular churchgoers in France. Doesn't seem implausible that Italian and French Romance dialects would have diverged considerably by 600AD.

[sunday]

That's supposing divergence began in 470 AD. But it could have started way before.

[Ivanhoe]

6 hours ago, lucklucky said:

 By 600 AD already Latin vanished? It seems a very short time.

They all moved to Latin America. 

[sunday]

To Quebec, yes.

[lucklucky]

4 hours ago, Yama said:

Step from 'dialect' to 'language' is a fluid one, but we do know from historical sources that by 800AD, classical Latin was incomprehensible for regular churchgoers in France. Doesn't seem implausible that Italian and French Romance dialects would have diverged considerably by 600AD.

My idea was precisely the Church the masses were in Latin. By France i think it would depend in what part of it. 

[Yama]

22 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Aside from the typo, an interesting graphic. Interesting to see those small little pockets of differential languages such as Burgungian.

Comment on the Fennoscandian region. It's not too bad, though as the author himself noted, it has errors:

-At around that time, Saami language was spoken much southern in Finland, and much to the east in Karelia, than shown on the map. Saami toponomy has been found in almost all of Finland, and in the east all the way to Dvina river. On the other hand, in Scandinavia, Saami language probably did not extend that far South.

-on similar vein, "North Finnic" language region as shown is somewhat too large. See this map for latest research on the subject:

Though, it must be noted that this map only depicts the areas where current Baltic Finnish language group was born. Closely related, but since disappeared, "sister dialects" of Finnic languages were probably spoken outside that area, including Karelia. It's noteworthy that no Saami toponomy is known from Karelian Isthmus, indicating that Finnic presence there is very ancient.

-Åland was likely Germanic at that time, as was Southwestern Finnish coast.

-Paleo-Lappish (a non-Uralic language of unknown origin) may still have been spoken somewhere at 600AD. 

-regarding Baltic languages - see this map of Baltic toponymy. Of course, by 600AD Germanic languages may have already replaced westernmost Baltic languages.

 

[sunday]

5 hours ago, Yama said:

Comment on the Fennoscandian region. It's not too bad, though as the author himself noted, it has errors:

-At around that time, Saami language was spoken much southern in Finland, and much to the east in Karelia, than shown on the map. Saami toponomy has been found in almost all of Finland, and in the east all the way to Dvina river. On the other hand, in Scandinavia, Saami language probably did not extend that far South.

-on similar vein, "North Finnic" language region as shown is somewhat too large. See this map for latest research on the subject:

Though, it must be noted that this map only depicts the areas where current Baltic Finnish language group was born. Closely related, but since disappeared, "sister dialects" of Finnic languages were probably spoken outside that area, including Karelia. It's noteworthy that no Saami toponomy is known from Karelian Isthmus, indicating that Finnic presence there is very ancient.

-Åland was likely Germanic at that time, as was Southwestern Finnish coast.

-Paleo-Lappish (a non-Uralic language of unknown origin) may still have been spoken somewhere at 600AD. 

-regarding Baltic languages - see this map of Baltic toponymy. Of course, by 600AD Germanic languages may have already replaced westernmost Baltic languages.

 

Some areas to the west, especially the current East Prussia, should have been populated by Old Prussians, before the conquest of the Teutonic Order.