Der Zeitgeist Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) Recovery teams have now apparently reached the site of the outdoor music festival massacre, and the death toll is rising quickly . Edited October 8, 2023 by Der Zeitgeist
Perun Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 5 hours ago, MechInf said: Is this true? The reason we didn't see the IDF in the first 12 hours: the two battalions closest to the border were heavily engaged and basically taken out of the picture? (3). A large list of senior officers in spearhead units in the Golani and Nahal divisions were killed this morning. (4). 24 female observers were killed (slaughtered) from Camp Reim, those who survived were taken prisoner. (5). From the 13th Golani Battalion, Companies B and C, were almost completely wiped out. (6). From the 51st Golani Battalion, Company C was almost wiped out, and in company A There are heavy casualties. (7). The 12th Battalion which is in Nablus was sent in to replace them, as well as: — Golani patrol — Navy seals (Sheitat 13) — special forces of Sheldag, — Special Forces of the Defense South. (8). Hamas terrorists slaughtered Golanis forces in Kerem Shalom and Erez. (9). Senior can Israeli commander that were killed, include so far: — Commander of Nagal Brigade. — Commander of Southern Brigade. — Deputy Commander of Southern Brigade. — Commander of Southern Brigade. — Southern Command Officer, Sergeant Karakel. — Gaza Liaison Brigade, 13th Sergeant Major. — 51st battalion commander. — Platoon Commander 931. — Special Forces Nahal commander. If 2 batalions were whiped out wouldnt that be more than 250 killed, or this is only false news
futon Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Perun said: If 2 batalions were whiped out wouldnt that be more than 250 killed, or this is only false news Exaggerations are all possible but a lot of wounded or MIA would also contribute to a military unit being reduced to below whats capable of functioning as the starting unit. Perhaps the loss of the HQ sub-unit as well.
Yama Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said: Recovery teams have now apparently reached the site of the outdoor music festival massacre, and the death toll is rising quickly . That festival was held just few km's from the border, and terrorists got there very quickly: probably that site alone has hundreds of dead.
Der Zeitgeist Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Yama said: That festival was held just few km's from the border, and terrorists got there very quickly: probably that site alone has hundreds of dead. It's also notable that very little cellphone footage exists from this festival or the attack there. Obviously, only survivors upload videos, dead people don't.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 1 hour ago, futon said: Exaggerations are all possible but a lot of wounded or MIA would also contribute to a military unit being reduced to below whats capable of functioning as the starting unit. Perhaps the loss of the HQ sub-unit as well. This was divisional headquarters which was overrun. So two battalions wiped out is more than plausible, especially since IDF isn’t even at these locations
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said: Yeah, and they are also the ones that are happening to have the most kids as well. Demographic issue will become apparent in next two decades if these guys don’t properly integrate
BansheeOne Posted October 8, 2023 Author Posted October 8, 2023 Quote Death toll from Hamas onslaught passes 600, over 100 kidnapped, as Israel strikes Gaza Over 2,000 wounded and relatives of missing issue impassioned pleas for help; IDF still working to clear terrorists from Israeli communities, over 34 hours after assault began By EMANUEL FABIAN and TOI STAFF Today, 5:18 pm Israel formally declared a state of war on Sunday as the death toll from an unprecedented Hamas attack a day earlier rose above 600, with the fate of over a hundred people abducted and taken to the Gaza Strip still unclear. Israeli jets carried out “intense” airstrikes on targets in Gaza Sunday afternoon, shortly after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office announced that the security cabinet had voted Saturday evening to put the country officially at war, meaning it can carry out “significant military activities.” Battles were ongoing Sunday in at least three communities near the Gaza border overrun by Hamas gunmen a day earlier, and rocket fire continued to dog Israeli communities as Israel girded for what was expected to be a prolonged campaign against the Gaza-based terror group. [...] Officials estimated Sunday that over 600 people were killed in the massive assault launched by Hamas terrorists in Israeli communities near Gaza and by the thousands of rockets fired into Israel, making it the bloodiest day in the nation’s history, according to reports. A spokesperson for ZAKA, a volunteer group that handles human remains after terror attacks and other disasters, told Hebrew media that the death toll rose sharply as Israeli teams managed to clear Hamas gunmen out of communities along the border and recover victims. The Health Ministry said that the number of wounded in hospitals had reached 2,156, including 20 in critical condition and 338 seriously wounded. In addition to those killed and injured, Hamas gunmen took an unknown number of civilians and soldiers captive into Gaza after overrunning several military bases and communities. [...] The Government Press Office, a body that operates under the Israeli Prime Minister’s Office, said Sunday in a Facebook post that the number of hostages in Gaza was over 100. Among the kidnapped were small children, the elderly and foreign nationals including 11 Thais working on farms near the border. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the State Department was attempting to confirm reports that Americans had been killed or kidnapped. [...] An Egyptian official said Israel had sought help from Cairo to ensure the safety of the hostages, and that Egypt’s intelligence chief had contacted Hamas and the smaller but more radical Palestinian Islamic Jihad group, which also took part in the incursion, to seek information. Egypt has often mediated between the two sides in the past. However both Israel and Hamas denied that talks over the hostages were taking place. “Right now we are fighting terrorists on Israeli territory. We’re not involved in any talks about the hostages right now,” an official told The Times of Israel. The existence of Israeli hostages in Gaza likely complicated Israeli plans for a widescale counterassault on Gaza. Nonetheless, Israeli jets pounded Hamas and Islamic Jihad positions throughout the Strip, intensifying its air campaign a day after Netanyahu vowed to “avenge this black day.” Sites targeted by Israeli Air Force fighter jets and drones included headquarters used by the terror groups to manage the fighting. The Israeli Navy also foiled attempts by terrorists to infiltrate into Israel via the sea, killing dozens of terrorists. In all, more than 500 sites have been targeted by the IDF since the war began early Saturday. The Hamas-run health ministry in the Gaza Strip said 370 Palestinians have been killed and another 2,200 have been wounded in the Gaza Strip. Most of those were apparently killed in the Gaza Strip as a result of Israel’s retaliatory strikes. The IDF has said that it has killed more than 400 Palestinian terrorists, both in Israel and in strikes in Gaza. But inside Israel, security forces were still struggling to clear terrorist cells entrenched within devastated communities over 34 hours after the coordinated assault began. There were reports of heavy gun battles between Israeli troops and Palestinian terrorists in the southern town of Magen, close to the border with the Gaza Strip. According to Hebrew-language media, the Israel Defense Forces also used tanks against the terrorists in the area. Additionally, gunfights were continuing in Kfar Aza, where there were reports of at least 10 terrorists still holed up. The military said it was evacuating civilians from towns adjacent to the border with the Gaza Strip, while searching the area for any terrorists who may still be in Israeli territory. The towns include Nahal Oz, Erez, Nir Am, Mefalsim, Kfar Aza, Gevim, Or Haner, Ibim, Netiv Ha’asara, Yad Mordechai, Karmia, Zikim, Kerem Shalom, Kissufim, Holit, Sufa, Nirim, Nir Oz, Ein Hashlosha, Nir Yitzhak, Be’eri, Magen, Re’im, Sa’ad and Alumim. “Further evacuations will be carried out according to the assessment of the situation,” the IDF said. [...] Police said they “neutralized” a car with Palestinian terrorists on the Route 4 highway as it sped northward from Gaza, before veering off into a field close to Ashkelon. But later reports indicated that the driver had been an Israeli and the chase a tragic case of mistaken identity. In Sderot, where terrorists managed to overrun a police station Saturday, a resident riding an all-terrain vehicle was shot and wounded by Israeli forces after refusing to halt, the municipality said. Additionally, there was sporadic rocket fire throughout the day, mainly toward communities in the south, in contrast to barrages a day earlier, which targeted areas as far away as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Four people were wounded, one of them critically, in a rocket barrage toward the Sderot area. The municipality said at least six buildings were hit, while the Sdot Negev Regional Council ordered residents to remain in shelters until further notice. On Israel’s northern border with Lebanon, the Hezbollah terror group shelled Israeli positions, drawing Israeli counterstrikes and sparking worries of a second front opening in the war. Defense Minister Yoav Gallant ordered the IDF’s Home Front Command to put together plans for a possible evacuation of towns on Israel’s northern border as well, should fighting break out on that front too. https://www.timesofisrael.com/death-toll-from-hamas-onslaught-passes-600-over-100-kidnapped-as-israel-strikes-gaza/
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 5 hours ago, seahawk said: I doubt they expected to have as much success against the IDF as they did. Civilians are easier targets. The basic idea was to get back into the eyes of the Muslim world and not be forgotten. Which was actually happening in the last years. Also, wiping out entire battalions of elite Israeli troops is a military win and a huge strategic loss to the IDF. So far, the IDF response has been to clear out gunmen in the territories, but nothing yet of the bases that were overrun. Seems like there is still some issues getting there? I dunno.
RETAC21 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 5 hours ago, Samsa said: Alright, thanks for the responses! Makes some sense though I can't help but think they messed up by openly and intentionally murdering civilians (apart from the obvious moral issue). Imo, giving the IDF a very bloody nose (and taking military hostages) would have yielded the same benefits. Plus it would have possibly caused a lot of internal conflict in Israel, showing incompetence of leadership/the mitary/etc. This way they redirected most of the anger at themselves instead of letting Isreal tear itself up internally. This is a feature, not a bug. Israelis are unified about the borders of the Israel with the exception of a few fringe groups, which pretty much are the land currently occupied (Gaza not included), despite the presence of an abundant Palestinian population which essentially are non-people. Killing Israelis of any kind will carry water with the Palestinians of all persuasions, and a fair number of Arabs in general, who see Israel as a Western colonial enclave, which is why Hizballah is happy to risk bombing to fire at Israel. In the words of an Arab commentator in Al-Jazzera, the Palestinians have a just cause that they are defending with unjust means.
Dark_Falcon Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 We've now got an Oryx-style list of the vehicles lost far in this conflict.
sunday Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 1 hour ago, crazyinsane105 said: Yeah, and they are also the ones that are happening to have the most kids as well. Demographic issue will become apparent in next two decades if these guys don’t properly integrate Because of demographics, they are the future of the Jewish people. Even if some of them are against the existence of the State of Israel.
sunday Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israel-chebaa-farms-gaza-rocket-attack-cd7b26f890bf4cae32491721506ec0a1 Quote Hezbollah bombards Israeli positions in disputed area along border with Syria’s Golan Heights Updated 7:28 AM GMT+2, October 8, 2023 BEIRUT (AP) — Lebanon’s Hezbollah militant group fired dozens of rockets and shells on Sunday at three Israeli positions in a disputed area along the country’s border with Syria’s Israeli-occupied Golan Heights. Hezbollah said in a statement that the attack using “large numbers of rockets and shells” was in solidarity with the “Palestinian resistance.” It said the Israeli positions were directly hit. (...) "Business as usual" or opening of a north front?
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 34 minutes ago, sunday said: https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israel-chebaa-farms-gaza-rocket-attack-cd7b26f890bf4cae32491721506ec0a1 "Business as usual" or opening of a north front? I believe it may just be to test the waters.
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Samsa said: Pardon the ignorant question, but can anyone with a better understanding of that conflict summarize what the purpose of such an attack could be? I somewhat understand the general missile attacks/bombings/attacks on the IDF. That's unfortunately par of the course, doesn't raise many international eyebrows and keeps the Israelis on edge. This style of attack with very clear, deliberate and self publicized atrocities against civilians (and POWs i think(?)) don't help their cause at all. And despite the unprecedented success against the IDF they don't really have any prospect of mitarily defeating Isreal once they start to actually fight back. Sure they sow some chaos but precedents like that can also rally a country to a cause. I know little about the intricacies of that conflict, so maybe I miss the obvious... My guess, derail the peace process with the rest of the Arab nations. Most of those countries want a final settlement and don't give a toss about the Palestinians, but their people feel differently. Whose interest is it in that the Arabs and Israel remain estranged? Iran.
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 Don't know how much to read into this, but anyway.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: My guess, derail the peace process with the rest of the Arab nations. Most of those countries want a final settlement and don't give a toss about the Palestinians, but their people feel differently. Whose interest is it in that the Arabs and Israel remain estranged? Iran. For what it’s worth, Blinken is saying there is no conclusive evidence that Iran was behind this attack.
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) I don't think they would be doing this if it wasn't. think they are going to stomp on Syria. Edited October 8, 2023 by Stuart Galbraith
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Yama said: That festival was held just few km's from the border, and terrorists got there very quickly: probably that site alone has hundreds of dead. Many people were able to escape, but they did describe some pretty horrific scenes. The issue is the event took place next to Gaza, in the middle of a desert, and many were reliant on buses for transport to the festival. Complete catastrophe. And apparently there weren’t any armed guards present to try and halt the Palis
crazyinsane105 Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 27 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: I don't think they would be doing this if it wasn't. think they are going to stomp on Syria. Doubt Syria is the issue. Very likely it will be against Hezbullah. If IDF is having issues against Palestinian militant groups, they’ll be overwhelmed quickly by Hezbullah if another front opens.
seahawk Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: I don't think they would be doing this if it wasn't. think they are going to stomp on Syria. The last thing needed is US involvement.
Dawes Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 Apparently, the US DoD "will be rapidly providing the Israel Defense Forces with additional equipment and resources, including munitions," according to a statement from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Sunday.
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 Well, they are there for a reason. I doubt its to enjoy the fishing.
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