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Iron Swords vs. Al-Aqsa Deluge - Israel/Palestinians (again)


BansheeOne

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10 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Why? Do the Hamas operatives have a specific uniform? Could you show us those uniforms? 

Those responsible are then not even soldiers acting under illegal orders, they're just straight up terrorists. 

I'm failing to see much of a distinction under the rules of land warfare. 

 

The pictures from the military outposts and also of the men bringing in the hostages shows a certain uniform like attire.

13 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Ok. So what are those hangers on classed as under military law in your view? 

Irregular combatants or terrorists. I am not defending them, but if the worst behaviour was shown by civilians, it means that a destruction of Hamas won´t solve the problem. That is a thought people should be acquainted with, as soon as the information and evidence is available. 

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8 minutes ago, seahawk said:

The pictures from the military outposts and also of the men bringing in the hostages shows a certain uniform like attire.

Irregular combatants or terrorists. I am not defending them, but if the worst behaviour was shown by civilians, it means that a destruction of Hamas won´t solve the problem. That is a thought people should be acquainted with, as soon as the information and evidence is available. 

The dudes going in shooting at the buildings were whom? Civilians or Hamas? How do you draw the distinction? Perhaps a survey of the uniform equipment of Hamas and how they organize their units and what their orders was is in order for you to make a strong case here? 

That Hamas was taking claims for the attacks and did nothing to dissuade the hangers on is a question for you to address as well. 

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18 minutes ago, Burncycle360 said:

Are hamas fighters considered civilians for the purposes of death counts? Or how do you tell?

Once the AK is picked by another would be martyr, they become civilians.

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1 hour ago, seahawk said:

No, I said could be. Because most videos show people in civilian attire, some even lacking rifles or weapons. Saying those are Hamas operatives seems like a stretch. And this is already used by pro-Palestinian circles to paint it as false flag. So imho Israel needs to speak the truth. That it looks like civilians from Gaza played a huge role in the atrocities, even tough that complicates things by a lot.

The participation of civilians was well covered in Israeli TV.

No actual person, ever, has claimed this was a Zionist false flag because the ability to speak, breath, express opinions, requires at least a net positive amount of brain cells. So you take a fake narrative and dress it as someone else's despite none actually propagating said narrative, and just say it exists, I assume because you want to use it to derail a discussion or test the water to see how people respond to it, but here's the bottom line - It's absolute bullshit.

Edited by Mighty_Zuk
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7 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Actually this debate is useless. We know Western MSM would junp all loops to demosstrate "Paleastinians are themselves to blame". Who cares, as vidos of numerous dead babies are now on the phones of next to every Muslim on the planet (despite of the fact significant part of victims were actually Christians, at least as it is reported here in Russia).

(...)

That just shows me you never seen Western Media.

Where an explosion in Israel is an explosion and an explosion in Gaza is an attack.

Where Palestinans are attacked  and killed by Israel, but Israelis just die in a explosion.

 

Edited by lucklucky
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4 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

That just shows me you never seen Western Media. Where an explosion in Israel is an explosion and an explosion in Gaza is an attack.

 

Aye. There was a second bombardment of a hospital, this time on the actual hospital and not a parking lot, and absolutely no coverage in western MSM. Why? Because that hospital was Israeli.

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19 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

That just shows me you never seen Western Media.

Where an explosion in Israel is an explosion and an explosion in Gaza is an attack.

Where Palestinans are attacked  and killed by Israel, but Israelis just die in a explosion.

 

I'm sory but as barbaric Russian and cynical USSR collapse survivor i look first and foremost on the practical results - and this practical results are billions of US help pumped into Israel routinely, year after year and decade after decade, May be some people in Israel complain about media support not as good as they believe they deserve - but practical results are telling the different story.

    By the way another pro-Russian take (by the way author is partly of Jewish origin, on his father's line) https://t.me/sashakots/42827

"Ukraine began to inflict the first strikes on hospitals back in 2014. I remember we were sitting in the basement of the Slavyansk Hospital. The patients were lowered down <to basement> - both civilians and wounded militia members. We sat and counted the "arrivals" (incoming hits - RA) on the roof.

Shells hit regularly at Kalinin Hospital in Donetsk. I remember, again in 2014, the AFU hit the morgue of this clinic when the remains of Andrei Stenin were brought there.

In January of this year, the AFU targeted the hospital in Novoaydar. A dozen and a half people were killed. No one on the planet was interested in this. All these years, the "civilized world" has conveniently existed in the paradigm of "they fired on themselves."

Today, this familiar principle is applied relatively to Gas. A representative of the "civilized world" cannot kill 800 people in a hospital with one missile. This is the lot of separators and terrorists.

Today, the AFU launched simultaneous targeted strikes at the central district hospital of Alyoshki and the rural outpatient clinic in the village Novy Mayak of the same Alyoshkinsky district".

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9 hours ago, ex2cav said:

Well, before CNN becomes a resource, didn't an Israeli spokesperson tweet that they had struck a Hamas base located in a hospital in Gaza as this happened? If so,  would be a clue.....or "we can discount that as the Israelis have no control over what is released, it was a mistake".

The explosion is massive. I don't think Hamas has anything like that in their inventory. Hazarding a guess 500lbs? I don't think they have anything in the 50 lb. range, though I could be wrong. JDAM?

No crater? I haven't seen too many craters prior to this in the war. 

I did see video of a rocket going up, then it may have failed, I'll take it for granted it did. However, wouldn't ballistic trajectory take it out of the area as opposed to dropping almost straight down? Again even if it did, that was way more, IMO that what Hamas has.

I am open to being wrong. That said the latest from the Israelis that the rocket blew up an ammo dump also doesn't ring true. It wouldn't be out in the open where falling munitions would be able to hit as the IAF would strike it.....

With that, if Hamas was hiding military facilities in the hospital, it would be a legitimate target. They couldn't admit it as they would look terrible, and a lot of $$$ is on the line....Hamas doesn't need help in looking like bad guys.

Well, looking at the damage in daylight it does indeed seem inconsistent with an Israeli airstrike. Put me in the column of a rocket mishap. I stand corrected.

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15 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

Guess I should take paragliding off my list of activities to do for the next few months 

You're in Chicago. You'll be fine. You'll probably get a hero's welcome if you land on Navy Pier or where Meigs field used to be and have lots of Pally chicks or liberal chicks wanting your phone number. Just fly a Pally or Hamas flag. 

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8 hours ago, seahawk said:

Irregular combatants or terrorists. I am not defending them, but if the worst behaviour was shown by civilians, it means that a destruction of Hamas won´t solve the problem. That is a thought people should be acquainted with, as soon as the information and evidence is available. 

Ok. Fine. Here's some footage from Israeli security cameras. 

Tell us. Which ones are Hamas Operatives, aka Terrorists given their penchant for murdering civilians in cold blood and which ones are Civilian Palestinian Gazan Terrorists. 

0:22, military fatiques, green head band, ball cap, LBE. Shooting up a car full of civilians. Hamas or just Pally? 

1:29, dude shooting at the women ehind the white car. kahkis, black shirt, OD green LBE, rifle. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?

1:35. the men who shoot the man running away and then shoot him up some more as he bleeds out. BDUs, web gear, mix of gear. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?

1:58 Two portly overfeds in black and blue shirts, dragging a dead ISraeli into a Toyota SUV Back. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?
 
5:00 plus, green fatigue pants, black shirts, green Hamas headbands, rifles, LBE, advancing as a fire team into the Kibbutz, shooting up homes. One of these is the one we've seen earlier probably smoked by some Israeli. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?
 



 

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12 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Lol, I never lied.

First you said that you were ethnically cleansed because you are jew (if I not mistaken you once said that you are not jew), then you said that it wasnt you but your parents, then you said it happened 1994. in Ukraine....

If that isnt lies...?

 

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59 minutes ago, rmgill said:

You're in Chicago. You'll be fine. You'll probably get a hero's welcome if you land on Navy Pier or where Meigs field used to be and have lots of Pally chicks or liberal chicks wanting your phone number. Just fly a Pally or Hamas flag. 

Paragliding isn’t really high up on my list anyways. Neither is getting with a liberal girl who believes in gender theory crap, or a Pali girl either lol

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15 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

Make announcements through the entrances. Warn civilians and the occupants to leave. Then start closing down entrances. Then pump in heavier than air flammables. Wait....then step back...fire in the hole. 

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1 hour ago, rmgill said:

Ok. Fine. Here's some footage from Israeli security cameras. 

Tell us. Which ones are Hamas Operatives, aka Terrorists given their penchant for murdering civilians in cold blood and which ones are Civilian Palestinian Gazan Terrorists. 

0:22, military fatiques, green head band, ball cap, LBE. Shooting up a car full of civilians. Hamas or just Pally? 

1:29, dude shooting at the women ehind the white car. kahkis, black shirt, OD green LBE, rifle. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?

1:35. the men who shoot the man running away and then shoot him up some more as he bleeds out. BDUs, web gear, mix of gear. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?

1:58 Two portly overfeds in black and blue shirts, dragging a dead ISraeli into a Toyota SUV Back. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?
 
5:00 plus, green fatigue pants, black shirts, green Hamas headbands, rifles, LBE, advancing as a fire team into the Kibbutz, shooting up homes. One of these is the one we've seen earlier probably smoked by some Israeli. Hamas terrorist or just terrorist?
 



 

To be honest, it actually shows the difference. The first attackers, that shoot the people look like Hamas, later we see civilians stealing cars and picking up bodies. Which imho shows, that even if you destroy Hamas, the threat won´t go away.

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2 hours ago, Perun said:

First you said that you were ethnically cleansed because you are jew (if I not mistaken you once said that you are not jew), then you said that it wasnt you but your parents, then you said it happened 1994. in Ukraine....

If that isnt lies...?

 

If you'd know how to read, you'd know I never said either I nor my parents were ever ethnically cleansed. However I do agree that analogies are a very difficult concept to understand.

Chronology is also difficult with all that timey wimey nonsense. 

"Esther walked in the park with her dog at 07:00".

The common Perun might think Esther existed in her own plane of existence, free of time and her dog. But then someone audaciously claimed she also walked in the park! With a dog? What dog? How did it get there? And at 07:00!! Surely the timeless Esther and her cosmic canine companion could not be bound by such simple concepts as time!

Long story short: Reading comprehension skill issues.

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