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Iron Swords vs. Al-Aqsa Deluge - Israel/Palestinians (again)


BansheeOne

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2 hours ago, Yama said:

Kiev is 'practically Russia'?

I said 1994. You need to read more carefully. The word "is" refers to the present. However, 1994 is a year commonly understood to be in the past. It is also widely accepted that the past occurred before the present.

2 hours ago, Yama said:

Any way, the story sounds like results of poverty and possibly racism, not 'ethnic cleansing'.

You need to read more carefully. I said their property and money was confiscated, not lacking. Confiscated means it existed and then it was taken.

This is a good place to start:

 

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Well, before CNN becomes a resource, didn't an Israeli spokesperson tweet that they had struck a Hamas base located in a hospital in Gaza as this happened? If so,  would be a clue.....or "we can discount that as the Israelis have no control over what is released, it was a mistake".

The explosion is massive. I don't think Hamas has anything like that in their inventory. Hazarding a guess 500lbs? I don't think they have anything in the 50 lb. range, though I could be wrong. JDAM?

No crater? I haven't seen too many craters prior to this in the war. 

I did see video of a rocket going up, then it may have failed, I'll take it for granted it did. However, wouldn't ballistic trajectory take it out of the area as opposed to dropping almost straight down? Again even if it did, that was way more, IMO that what Hamas has.

I am open to being wrong. That said the latest from the Israelis that the rocket blew up an ammo dump also doesn't ring true. It wouldn't be out in the open where falling munitions would be able to hit as the IAF would strike it.....

With that, if Hamas was hiding military facilities in the hospital, it would be a legitimate target. They couldn't admit it as they would look terrible, and a lot of $$$ is on the line....Hamas doesn't need help in looking like bad guys.

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27 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

Did they apologised for their repugnant reporting?

BBC, CNN, NYT, big names overall. They all lied and continue lying about the incident. As of right now, none has issued an apology for what is objectively a disgusting antisemitic blood libel. BBC are taking it a step further and announced their support for Hamas.

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4 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

I said 1994.

Still hardly "practically Russia", unless you subscribe to Roman's theory that there is no Ukraine and there is only Russia that lost it's way.

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5 minutes ago, ex2cav said:

Well, before CNN becomes a resource, didn't an Israeli spokesperson tweet that they had struck a Hamas base located in a hospital in Gaza as this happened? If so,  would be a clue.....or "we can discount that as the Israelis have no control over what is released, it was a mistake".

You mean Hananya Naftali? Dude's not affiliated with the government in any way. He does everything privately, and if you'd know him outside the scope of the current war, you'd know he's not particularly fond of facts either.

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53 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

I'm sure people got killed; but even if we assume all images of dead bodies around the net are actually from this incident, they amount "only" to a couple dozen, which is quite possible if there was indeed a line outside the hospital, or a crowd hoping for protection on its premises. Bad enough, however the inflation to several hundred is clearly an exaggeration which immediately makes even realistic claims suspect.

Yes, im quite willing to believe that many. But it's been hyped out of all reason. The 500 number, we took only 89 more then that in the entire bombing of Coventry!

The worst of it is the media recycling these reports. Just saying something has been claimed is enough to ensure its adopted as truth in some quarters. Col Lerner, IDF spokesman was really chewing out CNN over it, and CNN are reflexivly por Israel.

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Some background reading, quite cogent, a book by John Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, Professor of International Relations at Harvard Kennedy School at Harvard University:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy

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5 minutes ago, ex2cav said:

Well, before CNN becomes a resource, didn't an Israeli spokesperson tweet that they had struck a Hamas base located in a hospital in Gaza as this happened? If so,  would be a clue.....or "we can discount that as the Israelis have no control over what is released, it was a mistake".

The explosion is massive. I don't think Hamas has anything like that in their inventory. Hazarding a guess 500lbs? I don't think they have anything in the 50 lb. range, though I could be wrong. JDAM?

Actually this debate is useless. We know Western MSM would junp all loops to demosstrate "Paleastinians are themselves to blame". Who cares, as vidos of numerous dead babies are now on the phones of next to every Muslim on the planet (despite of the fact significant part of victims were actually Christians, at least as it is reported here in Russia).

     Speaking about reaction here in Russia, worth to note that Kadyrov (who is trying to be sort of "spokesperson for all Russian Muslims") was forced to react in the night with two posts

First one early in the morning (before hospital attack), seems like planned post written by press-service (ayndex-translation from  https://t.me/RKadyrov_95/4009   , not sure Muslim formulas are properly translated)

"Assalamu alaikum!
Early this morning, in all mosques of the Chechen Republic, thousands of Muslims performed a collective prayer Tahajud in support of the Palestinian people and our brothers participating in the SVO. The main part of the faithful gathered in the central mosque of the city of Grozny "Heart of Chechnya" named after Akhmat-Hadji Kadyrov.

The collective prayer was led by dear BROTHER, Mufti of the Czech Republic Salah-Haji Mezhiyev. After Tahajud, the believers performed dua, asking Allah Almighty to protect the people of Palestine from criminal encroachments by oppressors. Those gathered in united ranks sincerely asked Allah to grant victory to our soldiers fighting Satanists in Ukraine. Believers of the republic in all mosques of the region addressed the same prayers to the Lord of the Worlds.

The Muslims of the Czech Republic are watching the tragic events in the Gaza Strip with deep pain and regret. We also sincerely empathize with our soldiers in Ukraine and believe in their victory in the fight against the henchmen of Iblis. Therefore, the Muslims of the Chechen Republic decided to regularly gather for a collective Tahajud in all mosques of settlements.

I call on all Muslims to join us and visit the mosques of their regions together to perform Tahajud prayer, to show diligence in pronouncing salavats. Do not forget that dua is the most powerful weapon of a believer. So let's sincerely ask Allah to protect the people of Palestine from oppression and grant our brothers participating in their victory! May the Almighty punish all the wicked, at whose hands innocent people die - children, women, old people! Victory will be ours! Amin!" 

Second one - late in the evening, when Internet was full with videos of Muslim crouds storming US and Israel embassies in MidEast countries, with way more simple language, may be personal text ( https://t.me/RKadyrov_95/4011 )

"scale_1200

Dirar Isa ash-Shishani. This is the name of a Chechen, a police major from Jordan, who is well known and remembered in Israel by the participants of the events of the first intifada. In those years, the Palestinian uprising broke out for the same reasons as now - in connection with Israel's military occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. According to official data alone, more than ten thousand Palestinians were mercilessly killed and wounded at that time.

Dirar Isa saw all the atrocities committed by the Israeli military and could not stand it. Alone, he crossed the border, evaded pursuit and began to act directly behind enemy lines. Dirar Isa was fighting in an open area, entrenched and shooting back with small arms. This fight with the warrior of Allah cost the enemy dearly. In addition to heavy losses during the assault, the Zionists, for their part, could not oppose anything to Dirar Isa. As a result, the area of its location was bombed. However, even in this case, the enemy did not achieve the result on the first attempt.

When it was over, the Israelis were waiting for another unpleasant blow. Being sure that they were fighting against an entire squad, they were at a complete loss, realizing the overwhelming reality. As the participants of the assault themselves later recalled, they had only to pick up the body of Dirar Isa, which they eventually transported to the border with Palestine and left there.

That's how our BROTHER left as a shahid (In sha Allah). He didn't give his life for a bad life. The brutality of the Israeli authorities, their cavalier attitude towards the third shrine of Muslims - the Al-Aqsa Mosque, aroused his anger.

It was no coincidence that I remembered this story. It's instructive. Israel today is so carried away by its permissiveness that it is already furiously reveling in the blood of children, women and the elderly. Having lost all sense of proportion, he is already threatening to wipe an entire nation off the face of the earth for the whole world. But if the Israeli regime thinks that Palestine is one and you can do whatever you want with it, then it is very, very deeply mistaken.

Don't provoke people. Do not tease or provoke Muslims around the world to retaliate. It will cost you so much that you will lose a thousand times more than you will find. Know that Dirar Isa ash-Shishani was alone. But there are hundreds of millions of people like him today. And it's not just Muslims. Remember this and think before you make one of the biggest and fateful mistakes in your history."

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17 minutes ago, jmsaari said:

So it looks like this is the impact point:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8tvgyiWoAAWqdM?format=jpg&name=medium

Presumably something fairly small hit there, most likely a Qassam or some such malfunctioned and hitting the parking lot a lot of fuel went up as a secondary.

Fuel from the parked cars, I suppose, as it is likely those rockets burn solid fuel.

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51 minutes ago, ex2cav said:

Well, before CNN becomes a resource, didn't an Israeli spokesperson tweet that they had struck a Hamas base located in a hospital in Gaza as this happened? If so,  would be a clue.....or "we can discount that as the Israelis have no control over what is released, it was a mistake".

The explosion is massive. I don't think Hamas has anything like that in their inventory. Hazarding a guess 500lbs? I don't think they have anything in the 50 lb. range, though I could be wrong. JDAM?

No crater? I haven't seen too many craters prior to this in the war. 

I did see video of a rocket going up, then it may have failed, I'll take it for granted it did. However, wouldn't ballistic trajectory take it out of the area as opposed to dropping almost straight down? Again even if it did, that was way more, IMO that what Hamas has.

I am open to being wrong. That said the latest from the Israelis that the rocket blew up an ammo dump also doesn't ring true. It wouldn't be out in the open where falling munitions would be able to hit as the IAF would strike it.....

With that, if Hamas was hiding military facilities in the hospital, it would be a legitimate target. They couldn't admit it as they would look terrible, and a lot of $$$ is on the line....Hamas doesn't need help in looking like bad guys.

 A massive explosion is what took out Manchester City centre by the IRA bomb. This isn't even close to that. 250kg if ww2 damage is any guide. There was a large thermal effect from the cars, but some of them were not even fully burnt out. The hospital lost its window s but is still standing. Nothing to indicate a huge blast. I repeat, the hospital does not seem to have been hit. No indication it was ever a target.

6 minutes ago, Burncycle360 said:

So it turns out 500 blown up by Israelis at a hospital is Hamas's version of 40 beheaded babies?

No, because some babies were beheaded or burnt. There is absolutely  no evidence here Israel had anything to do with it.

The Israeli explanation is absolutely  consistent. I know that because I figured out the launch site before they even announced it. Anyone could if they spend 10 minutes on Google earth looking at it.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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I keep reminding myself that the numbers we bandy around so casually are human beings, most of whom very likely want nothing to do with the conflict, so seeing the numbers drop dramatically is a relief.

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4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Lets see it verified by outside participants. If they are willing of course.

Iran's Quds Force will be there to give a confirmation. 

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3 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Well here's a video via TASS panning around the impact site, showing the destroyed cars but the buildings largely intact except some broken windows, displaced roof tiles etc. Pretty much settles the errant rocket explanation for me, unless for some reason Israel precisely targeted the middle of the parking lot with some limited-effect weapon. Most victims seem to be from a line reportedly waiting outside the hospital.

 

IF this was a proper, HE air burst fuzed blast, I'd expect to see the sheet metal roof and facing of the nearby awning and the clay tiles stripped from those roofs. My amateur eye wonders if this was a casing deflagrating and not going high order very well. Landing ON the single flattened car and exposing the others to the higher degree of low order blast and fire and not the expected blast of an HE bomb from 250lbs or up. 

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1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

DpQ9YJl.png

Says a lot about you being man-child, as demonstrated multiple times previously. You lied and was caught in the lie.

Edited by bojan
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1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

...No, because some babies were beheaded or burnt...

Pics shown as evidence are AI fakes and such claims require proof.

Edited by bojan
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To be fair, I can photoshop a real image into an "AI fake" detector as if I took a screenshot, and people will accept that too rather than try and replicate it. Especially if it confirms whatever they want to believe. These are people who read the headlines and not the articles.

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18 minutes ago, bojan said:

Pics shown as evidence are AI fakes and such claims require proof.

Thanks, but ive already seen one video of them trying to behead someone, so we know they were up for it. We know they killed Babies, in photos shared by the Israeli Government.

if people want to continue bang the drum like its matter of some significance, then if its all the same to you, I tapped out of this debate a week ago. I still am.

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