Iron Swords vs. Al-Aqsa Deluge - Israel/Palestinians (again)

[crazyinsane105]

1 minute ago, RETAC21 said:

Gaza has been occupied and it wasn't a problem. The withdrawal was something that was never explained but it wasn't because they were suffering a lot of casualties.

As I have written here time and again that Israel has a Palestinian problem it doesn't want to see, and those chickens have come home to roost.

What could have been a manageable problem years ago has grown to nearly unmanageable proportions today and bombs off F-35s are not going to fix it, at the end of the day, it's boots on the ground they only way to put down an insurgency. Israel can do it, and it won't be easy, but it's far from impossible.

Gaza was occupied, sure. And it became a never ending insurgency, something the Israelis didn’t have the manpower or capital it wanted to spare. 
 

Not to mention the the insurgency caused quite a bit of corruption within the Israeli military itself. Where do you think the Palestinians would get all their guns from? They traded it for drugs with IDF. 
 

So again…no good solution. But I do agree if Gaza was occupied, it wouldn’t transform into what happened last night. 

[Yama]

30 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

This had to be a well-planned targeted operation. Probably a bigger slap to the Israelis than an overrun IDF base and some captured Merkavas, not to speak of the possible intelligence implications.

#elsewhere some people have claimed that the person on the video is not the general, but somebody else. We'll learn eventually I suppose.

[crazyinsane105]

1 minute ago, Yama said:

Well, they probably can't load it into a ship and sail to Iran. I suppose it is possible they could detach some individual components and give or sell them for studying. But most likely those tanks will be just burnt out to prevent recapture.

I dunno, I doubted the Palestinians would have the capability to destroy a single Merkava at this point. We are now seeing battalion sized losses among Israeli personnel and equipment now. 
 

BTW, the Israelis have really strict gun laws in place throughout their country. With the exception of active military personnel and mobilized, it’s ridiculously hard to obtain a gun in Israel. Those who are approved can only buy a single handgun, and keep no more than 50 rounds of ammunition at any given time outside a shooting range. Absolutely no rifles or long guns are allowed for private ownership. I’m sure the Palestinians took full advantage of this

[RETAC21]

1 minute ago, crazyinsane105 said:

Gaza was occupied, sure. And it became a never ending insurgency, something the Israelis didn’t have the manpower or capital it wanted to spare. 
 

Not to mention the the insurgency caused quite a bit of corruption within the Israeli military itself. Where do you think the Palestinians would get all their guns from? They traded it for drugs with IDF. 
 

So again…no good solution. But I do agree if Gaza was occupied, it wouldn’t transform into what happened last night. 

The Israelis (or to be precise, Sharon) didn't want to be burdened with the occupation of Gaza, since Gaza was never going to become part of Israel (in contrast to the West Bank) and it was never claimed by Egypt (which at the time, had the border under control) so the withdrawal was supposed to set up an alternate PA that could be kept slow boiling. Instead, it created a terrorist state when Hamas took over the place while Israel stood and watched, so occupation would have been a much better alternative in any possible way.

Successive Israeli operations did kill a bunch of militants, but it was for nothing as can be seen, as it has enabled Hamas to evolve. Right now, there are 2 realistic alternatives: build the equivalent of the Berlin wall - which Hamas will eventually cross, just like any other fortified line; or occupy the place, impose martial law and go house by house until cleaned, and then start rebuilding it from the ground up (and not just the houses, but everything, including education).

[MiGG0]

11 minutes ago, Yama said:

Well, they probably can't load it into a ship and sail to Iran. I suppose it is possible they could detach some individual components and give or sell them for studying. But most likely those tanks will be just burnt out to prevent recapture.

I agree. Most likely equipment that Palestanisns cannot use will be destroyed. 
 

I wonder what usable equipment they captured? IE Spikes or other AT equipments?

Edited October 7, 2023 by MiGG0

[Strannik]

1 hour ago, ex2cav said:

I saw a you tube Arab news channel this morning with an interview of a person purportedly the spokesman for Hamas. He said the reason for this was to send a message and shame those countries who are normalizing relations with Israel. 

Saudis and Qatar release statements assigning the blame to Israel due to it's policies of the last years.  Intetesting how this all would impact the supposedly almost agreed Saudi/US/Israel deal.

[crazyinsane105]

7 minutes ago, RETAC21 said:

impose martial law and go house by house until cleaned, and then start rebuilding it from the ground up (and not just the houses, but everything, including education).

I think this is simply beyond the capability of the Israelis.
 

3 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Saudis and Qatar release statements assigning the blame to Israel due to it's policies of the last years.  Intetesting how this all would impact the supposedly almost agreed Saudi/US/Israel deal.

Laughable to think the Saudis were going to accept Israel in the first place. They’ve warmed up considerably to Hamas past six months..

[Strannik]

40 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1710589414953431521/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1710589414953431521&currentTweetUser=WarMonitors&mode=profile
 

Palestinian drone destroying a Merkava

David vs Goliath moment full history circle.

[Strannik]

4 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

I think this is simply beyond the capability of the Israelis.
 

Laughable to think the Saudis were going to accept Israel in the first place. They’ve warmed up considerably to Hamas past six months..

They were requiring consessions from IL re: Palestinian issues + nuclear cycle + the formal protection treaty from the US for pivoting away from China + maybe oil pricing cooperation.  This deal has been considered just plain stupid for the US.

Will be interesting to see this is some crafty multistep entrance to it or a black swan.

[Strannik]

The full occupation of Gaza is a huge hot pool of elephant diarrhea.  But Israel is welcome to step into it if it so desires.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Strannik

[BansheeOne]

29 minutes ago, Yama said:

#elsewhere some people have claimed that the person on the video is not the general, but somebody else. We'll learn eventually I suppose.

I wouldn't be surprised if the video is wrong, given that the tweet is from the well-known military expert Scott "Ukraine is full of US Nazi biolabs" Ritter. 😉 But I thought I had seen the capture reported previously; looking it up, it was a Hamas claim, so might well be false entirely.

[Strannik]

25 minutes ago, Strannik said:

David vs Goliath moment full history circle.

Supposedly PG-7VR tandem HEAT RPG rocket was used in this drop.

[Der Zeitgeist]

Uday Trump has the best takes, as usual.

 

[crazyinsane105]

 

1 hour ago, MiGG0 said:

I agree. Most likely equipment that Palestanisns cannot use will be destroyed. 
 

I wonder what usable equipment they captured? IE Spikes or other AT equipments?

While the captured vehicles will be useless to the Palestinians, the munitions inside will be very useful. Given the number of armored vehicles and possibly several military bases overrun, the Palis have probably restocked on ordinance for a very long time. The Palis raised a sunken WWI ship full ordinance years ago to make their rockets (this was about a decade ago). I don’t recall how much there was on board that ship, but didn’t seem to be that significant.

Now, the Palestinians have not only a variety of 120 mm and 30 mm shells, but a variety of small arms and possibly ATGMs

Edited October 7, 2023 by crazyinsane105

[crazyinsane105]

1 hour ago, BansheeOne said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the video is wrong, given that the tweet is from the well-known military expert Scott "Ukraine is full of US Nazi biolabs" Ritter. 😉 But I thought I had seen the capture reported previously; looking it up, it was a Hamas claim, so might well be false entirely.

I dunno, this operation seemed very well coordinated. I won’t be surprised if Hamas knows exactly who he is.

Other question is how Iron Dome was overwhelmed so quickly. The number of rockets fired was similar to what was fired few years ago, with Israel being able to intercept most of them. 
 

[Roman Alymov]

39 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Uday Trump has the best takes, as usual.

Actually pro-Russians are also saying that PAL PR-service seems to be the best branch of their services, and compare that to unability of Rus MoD to provide anything that could reach people.....

[Roman Alymov]

Meanwhile Israel is demonstrating what retaliation strikes really look like. Not this awkward moving of red lines and "strikes on decision making centres" by RusMoD https://t.me/sashakots/42632 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Roman Alymov

[Strannik]

Israelis destroy the Palestinian Tower highrise housing many media outlets and allegedly  "used to house Hamas assets"

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Strannik

[lucklucky]

Always sleeping and always dumb.

[Der Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

go house by house until cleaned

That's not going to work.

[crazyinsane105]

12 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Meanwhile Israel is demonstrating what retaliation strikes really look like. Not this awkward moving of red lines and "strikes on decision making centres" by RusMoD https://t.me/sashakots/42632 

Gaza is a tiny territory with no real air defense and buildings that will collapse immediately upon impact from even a small munition. You can’t compare this to Ukraine..

[RETAC21]

Just now, Der Zeitgeist said:

That's not going to work.

It will take time, but it works, even in the photo you can see several areas that can be isolated one from the other. It worked at Fallujah:

[Roman Alymov]

11 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Israelis destroy the Palestinian Tower highrise housing many media outlets and allegedly  "used to house Hamas assets"

 

The same on YouTube 

 

[lucklucky]

4 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

 

If the senior officers said the inverse the Haaretz will be calling them warmongers.

[Roman Alymov]

Another video of Israel AF strikes folding highrise towers in Gaza https://t.me/dva_majors/26972

And another lesson for Rus Gov to learn: Energy Minister Yisrael Katz has signed an order ordering the Israeli Electric Company to stop supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip.

"