Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, shep854 said: Win for Iran. And China.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said: Prove me wrong then. Your claim -> burden of proof is yours.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Roman Alymov said: There are reports now about Israel citizens of Arab ethnicity attacked on the streets by Jewish mobs - how wide spread it it? Also, as far as i remember, lots of "Palestinians" work in Israel while living in Palestinian towns - what are they doing now? This occurred during Guardian of the Walls. Arabs start rioting and demonstrating in support of Hamas, then Israelis come to fight them. Sometimes it gets out of control so Bennet and Lapid (Israeli PMs in mid 2021-2022) worked to create a national guard that would deal with such situations and ensure domestic peace during wartime. Obviously it takes time but when Netanyahu came to power and the minister of homeland security (Pitamar Ben Gvir) promised to accept everyone, including violent criminals into the national guard, there was a massive public backlash and the project was halted. So as long as Netanyahu is in power and there isn't a national guard, expect this to become a recurring theme.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, glenn239 said: Gaza must be occupied and Hamas removed from power by force. If these tasks are beyond the strength of Israel then the US needs to stop talking about being Israel's ally and actually start being Israel's ally, with troops on the ground. There is no destroying Hamas. They're not an alien to Gaza, they're the people themselves. If they're gone, the PIJ take their place. If they're gone as well, the same people will take on a different name. There is no eradicating terror when the population actively breeds it.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Strannik said: Your claim -> burden of proof is yours. Pick a conflict with predominantly urban combat lasting in the region of several days to several months, and I'll prove it.
glenn239 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Perun said: Can you, all of you who support violance, explain to me how are you correct. For last 75 years there is constantly violance but not on every border. How can Jordan and Israel be at peace but with Palestinians cant be peace? The answer is that force is not a solution but compromise is. When prisoners take over a prison, you can't have it where the police surround the prison and then let the most ruthless prisoners run the show. The police have to retake the prison and establish order. Gaza is the prison, the Israelis are the police.
shep854 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Tragically, there are hotheads in every group, even the most tolerant. :(
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, glenn239 said: ...US needs to stop talking about being Israel's ally and actually start being Israel's ally, with troops on the ground. Why would you wish this on US? Being ally doesn't mean doing ALL the dirty work for them.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said: There is no destroying Hamas. They're not an alien to Gaza, they're the people themselves. If they're gone, the PIJ take their place. If they're gone as well, the same people will take on a different name. There is no eradicating terror when the population actively breeds it. Right, colonizers won't get rest unless they integrate the colonized or genocide them.
glenn239 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said: By far some of the best militant to civilian ratios on the planet. Israel has done quite well on the military to civilian casualty ratio. Not as good as the Russians in Ukraine overall, but the Israelis are working in urban environments whereas the Russians are fighting mostly in small villages and rural communities.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said: There is no destroying Hamas. They're not an alien to Gaza, they're the people themselves. If they're gone, the PIJ take their place. If they're gone as well, the same people will take on a different name. There is no eradicating terror when the population actively breeds it. Best way to beat an insurgency without mass exodus or genocide…bribery. And in this case, making sure that the well being of each Gaza resident is on par of most Israelis. Meaning Israel will have to become a mass welfare state to ensure Palis don’t join Hamas or other groups. And I don’t think this is a realistic possibility by any means. Just that there isn’t any other way of defeating an ideology, especially one that is backed by foreign powers
glenn239 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said: It seems that as of right now, the western support for Israel is unprecedented when looking 30-40 years back. Western support for Ukraine was massive and unprecedented.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, glenn239 said: When prisoners take over a prison, you can't have it where the police surround the prison and then let the most ruthless prisoners run the show. The police have to retake the prison and establish order. Gaza is the prison, the Israelis are the police. Re occupying Gaza, an area that has an underground city along with a little over 2 million residents above ground, alongside an insurgency that is armed with drones, ATGMs and advanced RPGs, etc. is not something that Israel is looking forward to do. And quite frankly I don’t blame them.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, crazyinsane105 said: Re occupying Gaza, an area that has an underground city along with a little over 2 million residents above ground, alongside an insurgency that is armed with drones, ATGMs and advanced RPGs, etc. is not something that Israel is looking forward to do. And quite frankly I don’t blame them. Occupying Gaza is much easier to do than many realize. It's keeping it occupied that's difficult and will take a daily toll, one that many Israelis believe is a price too high. 5 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said: Best way to beat an insurgency without mass exodus or genocide…bribery. And in this case, making sure that the well being of each Gaza resident is on par of most Israelis. Meaning Israel will have to become a mass welfare state to ensure Palis don’t join Hamas or other groups. And I don’t think this is a realistic possibility by any means. Just that there isn’t any other way of defeating an ideology, especially one that is backed by foreign powers Israel tried that. Only thing it got in return is more wars.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said: Occupying Gaza is much easier to do than many realize. It's keeping it occupied that's difficult and will take a daily toll, one that many Israelis believe is a price too high. Israel tried that. Only thing it got in return is more wars. Like having the biggest open air prison in Gaza. Lmao.
TrustMe Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 I agreee occupying Gaza would just result in a war of attrition. What about Hamas supply lines being cut? Any army that has no supplies cannot fight.
Mistral Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 1 minute ago, crazyinsane105 said: Re occupying Gaza, an area that has an underground city along with a little over 2 million residents above ground, alongside an insurgency that is armed with drones, ATGMs and advanced RPGs, etc. is not something that Israel is looking forward to do. And quite frankly I don’t blame them. They cut off electricity, food and water. The millions you say are now counting against them. How long can they last? Just pound any attempts at resuply and let nature takes its course like in any other siege in human history. At some point they will either eat their dead, surrender or the millions will kill them first to save their asses. Instant gratification is not a good trait to have in warfare. Patience is a virtue.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 1 minute ago, TrustMe said: I agreee occupying Gaza would just result in a war of attrition. What about Hamas supply lines being cut? Any army that has no supplies cannot fight. There is currently a total siege on Gaza. No electricity, food, water, fuels from Israel. 2 minutes ago, Strannik said: Like having the biggest open air prison in Gaza. Lmao. Israel has no open air prisons. All prisons must have ceiling for prisoners not to escape. Where do you see prisons with no ceilings in Gaza? Also, name 1 prison Israel runs in Gaza. Just now, Mistral said: They cut off electricity, food and water. The millions you say are now counting against them. How long can they last? Just pound any attempts at resuply and let nature takes its course like in any other siege in human history. At some point they will either eat their dead, surrender or the millions will kill them first to save their asses. Instant gratification is not a good trait to have in warfare. Patience is a virtue. Don't bet on Palestinians rebelling on Hamas for that. They'd rather die of starvation before they'd do something against them. Deterrence by providing them with welfare, as well as cutting them off, was tried, tested, and ultimately failed.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Mighty_Zuk said: Israel has no open air prisons. All prisons must have ceiling for prisoners not to escape. Where do you see prisons with no ceilings in Gaza? Also, name 1 prison Israel runs in Gaza The Gaza itself was/is.
DKTanker Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 hours ago, lucklucky said: Palestinian Government is rewarded if Palestinians and Israelis die. It is a death cult that journalism created. If the death cult was created by journalism it could be eliminated by journalism. No, the death cult within Islam existed long before international journalism of the 20th century. Like hundreds of years before. Journalism, generally sympathetic to this particular death cult has, however, exacerbated and prolonged its existence.
shep854 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 At least 9 Americans dead, unknown number kidnapped https://dailycaller.com/2023/10/09/death-toll-us-citizens-killed-israel-climbs-9/?pnespid=rahsCilCM6UF06mYviqyE4iOpwqsRpFmMuflxbF4rhpmm79RfCoQlWIiJU5S_ArJTj.LIwoN
futon Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Gaza's population doubled in the last 20 years. https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Strannik said: The Gaza itself was/is. As expected you want a murderous ideology free to get even more weapons and combat resources. Your hate against Palestinians, Israelis and people on the area is noted. 3 minutes ago, DKTanker said: If the death cult was created by journalism it could be eliminated by journalism. No, the death cult within Islam existed long before international journalism of the 20th century. Like hundreds of years before. Journalism, generally sympathetic to this particular death cult has, however, exacerbated and prolonged its existence. While you are also correct the journalist promoted death cult started with Marxist Palestinians groups. Another Totalitarian ideology.
Mike1158 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, Strannik said: And China. And Russia, seems this has a goal of overstretching US assistance, eu assistance on it's own is pyrrhic in nature and slow arriving. Breaking the bank of USA, a heck of a goal and for me at least, cements thee axis of foul intent in the world. Add NK and you have a real schmiracy to disturb world peace. Whatever the hell THAT is.....
DKTanker Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 hours ago, seahawk said: Imho the option is a modern version of the intra-German border. Fortifications, mines, vehicle ditches and automated turrets. The fence is too easy to bring down, you need something more substantial. On the down side, this also makes moving into Gaza a lot harder, but maybe this can be sold as a positive point. Perhaps you mean a modern version of the Maginot Line? As I'm sure you understand, the intra-German border, as well as its extension between FRG and Czechoslovakia, were prison walls intended to keep populations imprisoned by their own governments. The analogy would be if Hamas built border fortifications with mines and machineguns pointed inward toward Gaza to imprison its own people.
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