crazyinsane105 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Yama said: I doubt IAF is close to running out of smart munitions after 2 days of bombing - US assurance is likely a public warning for others (most notably Hezbollah) possibly considering about joining in: whatever else happens, don't count on Israel running out of bombs. After two days, no. But if Hezbollah gets involved, they’ll run out quick. Hezbullah has missiles and targeting capability that Hamas can only dream about. A few hundred missiles hitting various airfields and munition depots will hinder Israel significantly. Hence US assurance is needed in this case Edited October 9, 2023 by crazyinsane105
DKTanker Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said: Killing Hamas is one thing. Governing Gaza is completely different, and there is nothing to stop a new group from forming. I don’t think Israel’s leadership has a plan set in place on what to do regarding Gaza beyond some statements they made. So far 180 hostages, but that number will go up significantly in the coming days as more people are unaccounted for. Then there are the dead bodies Hamas will drag back (Israel has traded thousands of prisoners for the bodies of Israelis before). So Hamas has a massive bargaining chip. Unless the Israelis decide to simply not care one bit regarding anyone Hamas has taken captive and go all in…and risk hundreds more Israeli deaths. I guess we will see what happens Does Israel attempt another Entebbe and risk another Munich, or do they negotiate away their sovereignty to repatriate the hostages? Personally I think the IAF should ask to borrow a wing of B-52s so they can sanitize Gaza with Arc Light.
nitflegal Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said: Killing Hamas is one thing. Governing Gaza is completely different, and there is nothing to stop a new group from forming. I don’t think Israel’s leadership has a plan set in place on what to do regarding Gaza beyond some statements they made. So far 180 hostages, but that number will go up significantly in the coming days as more people are unaccounted for. Then there are the dead bodies Hamas will drag back (Israel has traded thousands of prisoners for the bodies of Israelis before). So Hamas has a massive bargaining chip. Unless the Israelis decide to simply not care one bit regarding anyone Hamas has taken captive and go all in…and risk hundreds more Israeli deaths. I guess we will see what happens I don't think they have an answer. Honestly, I don't think anyone does. They can't leave them on their own without constraints, they are too dangerous. They can't do a one state solution both because of their Jewish national identity but also because the potential new citizens in poll after poll want the Jews dead. They can't utterly destroy Gaza because of the international implications and because the avereage Israeli doesn't support genocide. They can't bargain with Hamas because they can't do anything to encourage them that this is a good idea. At a minimum, they have to retaliate hard enough that they minimize the chances that this seems like a good idea in the future. Since HAMAS leaders are now openly stating that Iran helped them plan, train for, and gave the go ahead for thier attack Israel also has that to deal with. We've got an ongoing 2 year war in Europe, may as well settle in for one in the middle East as well.
Detonable Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Haven't seen photos that confirm brigades of IDF troops killed. Would have expected them to be published by now.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, Detonable said: Haven't seen photos that confirm brigades of IDF troops killed. Would have expected them to be published by now. Too much unknown so far, we will know in the upcoming days once IDF makes it to the bases and understands who is killed vs missing.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 That's basically the answer (why fight) from the bottom (the top obviously have the political agenda)
nitflegal Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Strannik said: That's basically the answer (why fight) from the bottom (the top obviously have the political agenda) This would actually engender some sympathy if they weren't abducting children and the elderly and raping, murdering, and mutilating civilian women and girls.
rmgill Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Israel is in a fight for its existence in this conflict. Existential war demands that they make their opposition plea for mercy and unconditional surrender, not demand a dominant or parity position. Total war would be the way to go. Bomb any military target. Cordon and search, same as Falluja. Hamas dalenda est. The deliberate kidnapping of civilians and murder of same should show the world community they need to STFU.
crazyinsane105 Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, nitflegal said: This would actually engender some sympathy if they weren't abducting children and the elderly and raping, murdering, and mutilating civilian women and girls. If the attacks were directed solely against the military outposts and not against civilian targets, then the world may have given some credence to the grievances. But killing scores of civilians, hundreds of them in a single day, and that too by literally walking around with guns and shooting them....that's ISIS level of barbarism.
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, nitflegal said: This would actually engender some sympathy if they weren't abducting children and the elderly and raping, murdering, and mutilating civilian women and girls. Ah, yes the "international community" did a lot to move the needle last 10 years 🙄
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) Look at the statistics of how many kids and civvies Israel killed during last 10 years. Just because it's done with munitions is not making them more alive. Then play moral superiority bs card. Edited October 9, 2023 by Strannik
Strannik Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Strannik said: Look at the statistics of how many kids and civvies Israel killed during last 10 years. Just because it's done with munitions is not making them more alive. Then play moral superiority bs card.
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) Aerial footage of post Hamas attack on Nova Music Festival https://funker530.com/video/aerial-aftermath-of-hamas-attack-on-music-festival/ Edited October 9, 2023 by lucklucky
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Strannik said: That's basically the answer (why fight) from the bottom (the top obviously have the political agenda) Yes your support for Hamas agenda of Jew genocide.
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Strannik said: Look at the statistics of how many kids and civvies Israel killed during last 10 years. Just because it's done with munitions is not making them more alive. Then play moral superiority bs card. The statistics show the thousands of Israeli children saved because care for their own population, they also show the thousand of Palestinians saved by Israel, Foer example how many thousand people Iron Dome saved in both sides. Statistics also show how most supporters of Palestinians are so dependent on Hamas not caring for Palestinians. Like you. Edited October 9, 2023 by lucklucky
Der Zeitgeist Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) The Israel/Palestine conflict may be very complex. Luckily, Hamas simplify things immensely by doing things like this. Edited October 9, 2023 by Der Zeitgeist
Der Zeitgeist Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 More footage from the music festival, this one a dashcam video. One man getting dragged away while another one lying wounded is executed by Hamas. https://twitter.com/AndyAnd13667541/status/1711155886922846459
futon Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Strannik said: Ah, yes the "international community" did a lot to move the needle last 10 years 🙄 The Palestinian community looks like a mess. Relations between Hamas and Fatah look bad. Fatah itself looks disjointed with various leaders getting into conflict with other Arab groups around the area like in Lebennon or Jordan. Maybe all the smart Palestinians left Gaza, leaving behind a group eaay to be taken over by a group like Hamas, and to be under their control for 15 or so years. Maybe if Hamas was different, the "open air prison" would be open from blockade. If they want to give two-state solution a better chance, they need more of the right exposure international. And that's international not just in global eyes but also regionally such as by eyes like Egypt and KSA. If KSA grows increasingly in favor of Israel, the less likely KSA would be willing to back a two state solution. I think KSA, or at least some in KSA, seems pretty serious about a future oriented prosperous path and so seems willing to put away old squabbles related to resentment towards Israel. Maybe Hamas doesn't get it that times change and that they send the wrong message to those in Gaza. Edited October 9, 2023 by futon
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 It was the Soviet Union and the European leftist journalism that helped build this Palestinian culture. They picked the winners inside Palestinian society. The cultural difference is not only a difference of culture between Israel and Palestinians it is also a difference of culture between Israel supporters and Palestinians supporters in the West : Israel Government is punished by its citizens and Israeli supporters if Israelis die. And if Palestinians die. Palestinian Government is rewarded if Palestinians and Israelis die. It is a death cult that journalism created. Never seen a Palestinian supporter criticise Hamas, Fatah lack of care regarding Palestinian civilians.
Perun Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 Can you, all of you who support violance, explain to me how are you correct. For last 75 years there is constantly violance but not on every border. How can Jordan and Israel be at peace but with Palestinians cant be peace? The answer is that force is not a solution but compromise is.
lucklucky Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 So you could have peace with Communists and Nazis? How many millions the Cold War killed? Tell me did you read the Hamas charter? Or for that matter the Iranian Islamic Republic Constitution?
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Strannik said: Look at the statistics of how many kids and civvies Israel killed during last 10 years. Just because it's done with munitions is not making them more alive. Then play moral superiority bs card. By far some of the best militant to civilian ratios on the planet.
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, DKTanker said: Does Israel attempt another Entebbe and risk another Munich, or do they negotiate away their sovereignty to repatriate the hostages? Personally I think the IAF should ask to borrow a wing of B-52s so they can sanitize Gaza with Arc Light. There is a third way, which will probably appeal to you because it will have the left wing around the world throwing their toys out the pram. You send in the Army around the periphery of Gaza. You 'evacuate' large areas of men women and children, put them in 'care camps'. Then you bulldoze their housing. And then you keep doing that, until a penny drops. Dont need to clear all of Gaza. Take say maybe 4 or 5 thouand people, or as many as you have capacity for.And point out you cant give them back till you get all the hostages back. And then when/if you get them back, or their bodies, you dump that 5000 Palestinians you took on the West Bank, and fund them to build new houses. Will it work? Dont know. Its more imaginative than just carpet bombing the way to a solution, and nobody who stops to think about it, cant say that it isnt a truly fair.
Mighty_Zuk Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 2 hours ago, lucklucky said: Although this report is true, Clash Report is one of the many "OSINT" channels found to propagate disinformation, not only on Israel-Palestine but also on Ukraine-Russia.
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