Iron Swords vs. Al-Aqsa Deluge - Israel/Palestinians (again)

[crazyinsane105]

6 minutes ago, Dawes said:

Apparently, the US DoD "will be rapidly providing the Israel Defense Forces with additional equipment and resources, including munitions," according to a statement from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Sunday.

IDF ran out of PGMs in a week during 2006 against Hezbullah. If a two front war takes place, they’ll need more munitions for sure 

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

[Roman Alymov]

Seems like not all HAMAS boatsd were destroyed, some made it to the beeches, killed guards (or just random Israelis) and captured vehicles to ride https://t.me/milinfolive/108023

[Yama]

47 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

IDF ran out of PGMs in a week during 2006 against Hezbullah. If a two front war takes place, they’ll need more munitions for sure 

I doubt IAF is close to running out of smart munitions after 2 days of bombing - US assurance is likely a public warning for others (most notably Hezbollah) possibly considering about joining in: whatever else happens, don't count on Israel running out of bombs.

[Der Zeitgeist]

Heh.

 

[Strannik]

 

[Dark_Falcon]

35 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Seems like not all HAMAS boatsd were destroyed, some made it to the beeches, killed guards (or just random Israelis) and captured vehicles to ride https://t.me/milinfolive/108023

Lots of them got wasted, though:

 

 

[Burncycle360]

The leaflets, spread far and wide, should read "These airstrikes brought to you by Hamas, if they didn't do what they did yesterday there wouldn't be strikes today. Please be sure to let them know how you feel."

[Strannik]

Turkey enters the game:  "US stay away"

 

 

[Dawes]

'Nickel Grass 2"?

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Turkey enters the game:  "US stay away"

 

 

He didn't say any of that.

[sunday]

I wonder if July of 1914 looked like the current situation.

[Roman Alymov]

Just now, Burncycle360 said:

The leaflets, spread far and wide, should read "These airstrikes brought to you by Hamas, if they didn't do what they did yesterday there wouldn't be strikes today. Please be sure to let them know how you feel."

With the same logic Germans were executing villagers after attacks by Partisans in Russia, Greece, France etc. 

Since now civilized Europeans no more pretend that they consider killing Russians as bad deed and are back to old habits, and nobody cares about Greeks - here is French example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

 

[Strannik]

Blue-on-blue at Israeli/Lebanese border: 7 Israelis killed.

 

 

[Strannik]

16 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Turkey enters the game:  "US stay away"

 

 

Looks like subtitles are fake.

He did call for  ‘independent, geographically integrated Palestinian state’

[Der Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Looks like subtitles are fake.

Of course they are. Did you really believe they were accurate?

[Burncycle360]

1 hour ago, Roman Alymov said:

With the same logic Germans were executing villagers after attacks by Partisans in Russia, Greece, France etc. 

Since now civilized Europeans no more pretend that they consider killing Russians as bad deed and are back to old habits, and nobody cares about Greeks - here is French example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

 

 

True, but you're either in total war or you are not. Hamas attacks civilians and hide among them to do so, relying on Israel's better angels to show restraint, but if they do not... well hamas set the terms. Grooming ones plumage for holding the moral high ground is a luxury for winners to enjoy afterwards. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Burncycle360

[Strannik]

15 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Of course they are. Did you really believe they were accurate?

Should have checked of course, too much even for sultan's opening bid at the Istanbul Bazaar 😂

[lucklucky]

11 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

She's rapidly becoming the international face for the Palestinian atrocities (of course cynically speaking, good looks always help), though there is some misinformation, not necessarily intentional so soon in this chaos. She's a dual German-Israeli citizen living in Israel, so she was not visiting the country, but probably the specific location. The "peace" part of the festival may be an invention for added effect; German media just talk of a kibbutz festival or dance party, and the CNN has it as

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-gaza-fighting-hamas-attack-music-festival-intl-hnk/index.html

The "Times of Israel" also calls it an outdoor "nature" trance festival in honor of Sukkot. Her family says Louk organized it, but I think it's more likely she organized the trip for a "tourist group" they say she was there with.

Thanks

14 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

No, I think he probably has a point. After all, in 1973 many senior commanders, many soldiers, were away from their post for the religious holiday. Added to everyone being hacked off with Netanyahu's antics, reservists not being adequately trained, then the manpower problem explains a lot, not least the initial failure of Iron dome.

I will say this, yes, its entirely probable there was an intelligence failure as well.. OTOH, is just about possible that some parts of the Israeli intelligence service passed credible reports up the chain but were dismissed because politics. That happened in 1973 as well.

Or maybe Netanyahu just stopped listening to people. He seems pretty good at that.

Good memory. Indeed.

14 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

At least two girls captured there are Russians (i mean, with Russian names - not clear what citizenship(s) they got).

Thanks

[lucklucky]

1 hour ago, Roman Alymov said:

With the same logic Germans were executing villagers after attacks by Partisans in Russia, Greece, France etc. 

Since now civilized Europeans no more pretend that they consider killing Russians as bad deed and are back to old habits, and nobody cares about Greeks - here is French example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

 

Really that is your take? Is Israel carpet bombing Gaza?

[ex2cav]

I wonder how many hostages Hamas took. I haven't seen a total number, but looking at random videos it looks like a bunch. IMO a re-occupation plan for Gaza is in the works. 

I don't know what sort of support Hamas can expect. There might be some political flag waving around ME, but I can't see anything substantial or game-changing. Israel has been blockading the strip since 2015. The "holes" will be plugged and nothing will be allowed in. Power will be turned off.....

[nitflegal]

29 minutes ago, ex2cav said:

I wonder how many hostages Hamas took. I haven't seen a total number, but looking at random videos it looks like a bunch. IMO a re-occupation plan for Gaza is in the works. 

I don't know what sort of support Hamas can expect. There might be some political flag waving around ME, but I can't see anything substantial or game-changing. Israel has been blockading the strip since 2015. The "holes" will be plugged and nothing will be allowed in. Power will be turned off.....

As many of have said, I would guess Hamas was doing as their masters ordered.  Derailing the Israeli/Arab peace process is worth sacrificing Hamas if you're Iran.  For Israel, I don't see how they can not eradicate Hamas for this; it's too big and too brazen.  Which means going after Hamas leadership and killing them everywhere, which puts Israel into conflict with Qatar.  And even though they know it if they don't, then Hamas recruitment goes through the roof and they get emboldened to this all again.  If an enemy went into any country and slaughtered hundreds of civilians in multiple towns and took hostages for rape and parading their corpses around that country would utterly slaughter them regardless of the consequences.  I doubt if Israel will be any different.  Which means, by the way, that the country that the US has been trying to loosen things up with took those overtures and then proceeeded to probably set the middle east aflame for years.  Thank God for no mean tweets though. . . 

[crazyinsane105]

3 minutes ago, nitflegal said:

As many of have said, I would guess Hamas was doing as their masters ordered.  Derailing the Israeli/Arab peace process is worth sacrificing Hamas if you're Iran.  For Israel, I don't see how they can not eradicate Hamas for this; it's too big and too brazen.  Which means going after Hamas leadership and killing them everywhere, which puts Israel into conflict with Qatar.  And even though they know it if they don't, then Hamas recruitment goes through the roof and they get emboldened to this all again.  If an enemy went into any country and slaughtered hundreds of civilians in multiple towns and took hostages for rape and parading their corpses around that country would utterly slaughter them regardless of the consequences.  I doubt if Israel will be any different.  Which means, by the way, that the country that the US has been trying to loosen things up with took those overtures and then proceeeded to probably set the middle east aflame for years.  Thank God for no mean tweets though. . . 

Killing Hamas is one thing. Governing Gaza is completely different, and there is nothing to stop a new group from forming. 
 

I don’t think Israel’s leadership has a plan set in place on what to do regarding Gaza beyond some statements they made. So far 180 hostages, but that number will go up significantly in the coming days as more people are unaccounted for. Then there are the dead bodies Hamas will drag back (Israel has traded thousands of prisoners for the bodies of Israelis before). So Hamas has a massive bargaining chip.

Unless the Israelis decide to simply not care one bit regarding anyone Hamas has taken captive and go all in…and risk hundreds more Israeli deaths. I guess we will see what happens 

 

[crazyinsane105]

44 minutes ago, ex2cav said:

I wonder how many hostages Hamas took. I haven't seen a total number, but looking at random videos it looks like a bunch. IMO a re-occupation plan for Gaza is in the works. 

I don't know what sort of support Hamas can expect. There might be some political flag waving around ME, but I can't see anything substantial or game-changing. Israel has been blockading the strip since 2015. The "holes" will be plugged and nothing will be allowed in. Power will be turned off.....

So far 180 is the official number but with many dead unaccounted for (officially past 600 now), I’d reckon we are looking at loads more hostages 

[crazyinsane105]

3 hours ago, Strannik said:

Looks like subtitles are fake.

He did call for  ‘independent, geographically integrated Palestinian state’

The latter won’t happen. But not because of events past two days, but a geographically independent Palestine is simply impossible. Unsure what the point of promoting this even is