Authoritarian and Totalitarian Democracies

[Stuart Galbraith]

9 hours ago, R011 said:

I rather suspect the pro-Hamas demonstrators were not using it as a Hindu symbol..

In fairness, im sure there were large numbers of Hippies in their ranks.

[rmgill]

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Perfectly well. And the Confederate Flag is just a symbol of southern fraternity.

Precisely what are you trying to say here? Perhaps we could just say the same thing about the Saint Andrews Cross, the Cross of St George and the Union Jack. 

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

So what you are saying is, you would have absolutely no problem with the next tranche of guys storming the Senate, whilst wearing Swastika T shirts? Just guys celebrating their religious beliefs? Hey, maybe they are WW2 Finnish Airforce fans? etc etc etc.

Sometimes symbols are burned out, tainted by how they have been used. I can see the utility of painting it on the side of a restored Nazi bomber, sure. But I cannot see why I should tolerate people flying a Nazi fucking flag, in the centre of London that was bombed by Nazi's, just so they can piss off Jews. Im sorry, I just dont.

And if you want to label that as intolerance on my part, you know what, you are absolutely right. I guess you are going to have to put up with it.

[rmgill]

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

So what you are saying is, you would have absolutely no problem with the next tranche of guys storming the Senate, whilst wearing Swastika T shirts?

You've beaten the drum the most about this of late around here. How about you clarify what you meant. I'm having a hard time understanding what parallels you're trying to draw while at the same time informing you that the Left in the US DOES in fact identify the St Andrews cross as racist too (see also the Alabama State flag). I'll forgive you that that context might be missing for you. 
 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Just guys celebrating their religious beliefs? Hey, maybe they are WW2 Finnish Airforce fans? etc etc etc.

They're YOUR antisemites. 
 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Sometimes symbols are burned out, tainted by how they have been used. I can see the utility of painting it on the side of a restored Nazi bomber, sure.

I AM able to understand context. I don't think anyone was marking Buddhist temples on a map in Japan with signs on the streets of London. 

 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

But I cannot see why I should tolerate people flying a Nazi fucking flag, in the centre of London that was bombed by Nazi's, just so they can piss off Jews. Im sorry, I just dont.

So why do the British Plod do so? Why do they lecture folks on context? The problem here really, at least to me, is that your Police have their heads up their backsides on what it means and who's side they're on. But then we've already seen them warning British vets that the Union Jack is offensive. 

We're probably in agreement here on the optics. I'm just wondering what your comparison was about because it was awkward, unclear and wonky. 

 

[lucklucky]

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

9 hours ago, rmgill said:

You've beaten the drum the most about this of late around here. How about you clarify what you meant. I'm having a hard time understanding what parallels you're trying to draw while at the same time informing you that the Left in the US DOES in fact identify the St Andrews cross as racist too (see also the Alabama State flag). I'll forgive you that that context might be missing for you. 
 

They're YOUR antisemites. 
 

I AM able to understand context. I don't think anyone was marking Buddhist temples on a map in Japan with signs on the streets of London. 

 

So why do the British Plod do so? Why do they lecture folks on context? The problem here really, at least to me, is that your Police have their heads up their backsides on what it means and who's side they're on. But then we've already seen them warning British vets that the Union Jack is offensive. 

We're probably in agreement here on the optics. I'm just wondering what your comparison was about because it was awkward, unclear and wonky. 

 

Absolutely. But what you have never understood, we are not like your country. Our police forces are not politicized, because until comparatively recently, we lacked police commissioners. I dont particularly like the idea of politicization, but as far as putting a boot up the bum, yes, it has its place. Thus far its achieved nothing, largely because most people cant see the point of them, and dont turn out to vote for them. Ive no idea when the vote for ours even was.

Think of UK police as an unmotivated, poorly led, poorly financed, despised army, and you suddenly begin to see why our police services are so crap at much of what they do. They lost 20000 policemen during austerity. The Conservatives say 'well we made that up, we now have more police than ever'. So they do. But what they DONT tell you is that the population has significantly grown since 2010, resulting in a net fall in the ratio of police to the population. They get paid less, they have more work to do, they have less support to back them up. I dont defend their actions, but that police are reluctant wading into demonstrations, after what happened in 2010, is entirely explicable. Explicable, and in this case at least, utterly wrong.

Im glad we are in agreement. Basically they  should have told the people flying those flags they were causing a disruption and to remove them, and then if not remove them, arrest them. Its they job. They havent been remotely shy about tearing down posters of the Kidnappped of October 7th presumably because they know the Jews are unlikely to riot.

Maybe the Jews should. After all, nobody messed with them after The Battle of Cable Street, and the police were on the fascists side then as well.

Edited April 3, 2024 by Stuart Galbraith

[rmgill]

9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Absolutely. But what you have never understood, we are not like your country. Our police forces are not politicized, because until comparatively recently, we lacked police commissioners.
 

When your police are telling citizens that they're checking up on their social media posts, telling them to take down the Union Jack and other they're HIGHLY politicized. Because they're NOT enforcing the law and they're policing speech, patriotism and political voices. 

"Politicisation is a concept in political science and theory used to explain how ideas, entities or collections of facts are given a political tone or character, and are consequently assigned to the ideas and strategies of a particular group or party, thus becoming the subject of contestation."

9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Think of UK police as an unmotivated, poorly led, poorly financed, despised army, and you suddenly begin to see why our police services are so crap at much of what they do.

Funny we see the same thing here in certain locales. But you're not like us. You're on a different planet. Completely unlike. No commonality. We only derive from the British culture and have a common history. And share a common legal system, language, etc. 

9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

They lost 20000 policemen during austerity. The Conservatives say 'well we made that up, we now have more police than ever'. So they do. But what they DONT tell you is that the population has significantly grown since 2010, resulting in a net fall in the ratio of police to the population. They get paid less, they have more work to do, they have less support to back them up. I dont defend their actions, but that police are reluctant wading into demonstrations, after what happened in 2010, is entirely explicable. Explicable, and in this case at least, utterly wrong.

You have crap leadership. And you don't want to fix it. 

 

9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im glad we are in agreement. Basically they  should have told the people flying those flags they were causing a disruption and to remove them, and then if not remove them, arrest them. Its they job. They havent been remotely shy about tearing down posters of the Kidnappped of October 7th presumably because they know the Jews are unlikely to riot.

This is an example of politicization. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

That's not politicisation, that rejecting fascism when you see it.

[rmgill]

Telling British Vets they can't fly the Union Jack as a counter protest to the Hamas supporters is rejecting fascism? 

[Stuart Galbraith]

If you are actually comparing the Union Jack, which led the struggle against Fascism, with the Nazi one, which flew over the murder of 6 million Jew's, you are summarily invited to piss up a rope.

And yes, Im aware one council is trying to stop a veteran doing it. Im happy for there to be a law mandating ex Veterans to fly as big a Union Jack as possible. Just so you have no futher doubts about my position on this.

Edited April 6, 2024 by Stuart Galbraith

[Ivanhoe]

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/german-domestic-intelligence-chief
 

Quote

 

The German Interior Ministry continues to defend its controversial and widely criticised plans to restrict the speech, travel and economic activity of political dissidents. The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV), our domestic intelligence service and political police, have sacrificed substantial popular regard in the face of this campaign. According to a poll published last month, a plurality of Germans believe that the BfV are being misused for political purposes. The sentiment is prominent across all parties, except of course for the Greens, who believe that all is well with the Federal Republic.

The creepy, dissolute and rodent-looking BfV chief, Thomas Haldenwang, has taken to the pages of the Frankfurter Allgemeine to defend the conduct of his office and his plans to shape the “thought and speech patterns” of ordinary people through official repression.

 

 

[Ssnake]

Let's be clear, it's about one single person of foreign nationality here who has been declared persona non grata by a regional administration, which may or may not hold up in court. That does not automatically mean that it's no matter of concern, but I have fewer problems with keeping dirty foreigners out that want to meddle in domestic politics than with suppressing domestic dissent.

Haldenwang's position is, indeed, remarkable. Note that in today's issue of the same paper, he's received scalding commentary from a Free Democrats representative. So, I guess the lesson to take away is that civil rights are under constant threat of erosion from authoritarian types, be they from the left or the right. Make no mistake, said Austrian pissant would gleefully put you and me into prison for wrongthink too, if only given the power and opportunity.

[rmgill]

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

If you are actually comparing the Union Jack, which led the struggle against Fascism, with the Nazi one, which flew over the murder of 6 million Jew's, you are summarily invited to piss up a rope

Then, why are British police doing this? 
 

Stuart, you seem to ignore manifest examples of how the culture war very specifically makes those comparisons and equivalences. Get out from under the rock you're under. 
 

I don’t think those comparisons are remotely the same. The woke folks do. 
 

I, as a student of British Military history am very aptly aware of the differences even with examples of Amritsar as background. 

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

And yes, Im aware one council is trying to stop a veteran doing it. Im happy for there to be a law mandating ex Veterans to fly as big a Union Jack as possible. Just so you have no futher doubts about my position on this.

Then be more aware that its a larger issue. And that despite your protestations, the British police ARE politicized. 

[rmgill]

Conversely we have administrations in the Anglo-sphere who restrict the entry of folks like Lauren Southern. The UK forbade her entry and Oz has restricted it and demanded to see her social media. 

[lucklucky]

 

[lucklucky]

And the abject words of Assistant Commissioner Matt Twist

 

[lucklucky]

I am waiting for when the Met Police says that a black person  going to a white supremacist protest will be called "openly black" and considered by the Commissioner Matt Twist a "provocation".

Are mini-skirts provocation too for the UK Met police?

[lucklucky]

Meanwhile UK Police harass a Christian person with NHS nurse going.  

"There’s a report about beliefs being expressed"

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 hour ago, lucklucky said:

I am waiting for when the Met Police says that a black person  going to a white supremacist protest will be called "openly black" and considered by the Commissioner Matt Twist a "provocation".

Are mini-skirts provocation too for the UK Met police?

Yes, it really is that bad.

 

[Ssnake]

This goes back to the 1980s, minimum, when Bundeswehr public oath ceremonies were disturbed by violent peace activists (yes), and then the police would decide that the Bundeswehr ceremony was a provocation that had to vacate the premises, rather than arresting violent protestors.

Why? It was much easier to suppress the legitimate ceremony for the simple reason that soldiers follow orders and therefore abide by the law.

 

Needless to say that this only encourages the violent extremists.

[lucklucky]

Quote

'It was like the Stasi has come to my door': Woke Exeter University bangs on student's door and threatens him with expulsion after he is overheard saying... 'veganism is wrong'

From my research University of Exeter is a Public University so it is part of the State. So appropriate to be in this topic.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13331757/It-like-Stasi-come-door-Woke-Exeter-University.html

Quote

 

A philosophy student overheard through the wall of his room saying 'veganism is wrong' and 'gender fluidity is stupid' was threatened with expulsion by his university, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Robert Ivinson said he was disciplined after a student next door in halls of residence at Exeter University heard the comments then complained he had been offensive and 'transphobic'.

Mr Ivinson, who expressed the views in a phone call to a friend, was hauled before university officials and put on a 'behavioural contract' for the rest of his studies. 

He was warned he could be expelled if the university thought he had done anything else wrong, and told by letter he had been found guilty of harassment.

 

 

 

[lucklucky]

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/media-silent-on-islamist-motive-behind-attack-on-christian-bishop/

Quote

 

Media Silent on Islamist Motive Behind Attack on Christian Bishop

Australia's eSafety Commissioner, Julie Inman Grant, mandated Meta and X to take down all attack videos within 24 hours or face substantial fines.

 

 

[lucklucky]

The political centre is often  shown to have very extremist ideas

Mario Voigt, the head of the centre-right CDU in Thüringen

Quote

 

So how do we protect democracy in the area of social media? There are five approaches:

Ideally, we should agree to ban bots and to make the use of fake profiles a criminal offence.

There is also the matter of requiring people to use their real names, because freedom of expression should not be hidden behind pseudonyms.

Then there’s the question of whether we should create revocable social media licences for every user, so that dangerous people have no place online.

We need to consider how we can regulate algorithms so that we can revitalise the diversity of opinions in social networks.

And we also have to improve media skills.

 

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/leading-german-politician-calls-for

Edited May 1, 2024 by lucklucky

[sunday]

1 hour ago, lucklucky said:

The political centre is often  shown to have very extremist ideas

Mario Voigt, the head of the centre-right CDU in Thüringen

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/leading-german-politician-calls-for

Those measures seem to be directed against AfD and the like.

Greens and Antifas were quite free to do as they wanted in the past.

[seahawk]

As the left controls the media and the jurisdiction...