Niagara Falls, travel, and firearm safety

[Tim the Tank Nut]

so the 30 year anniversary is coming up soon.

Possible destination includes Niagara Falls.  It fits the budget (barely) as long as we drive rather than fly which is completely doable.

Here's the rub, as crime goes up everywhere I've gotten to the point where my personal defense equipment goes everywhere I do.  Niagara Falls is in the state of New York which is problematic for personal defense.

Change destinations? Carry and hope for the best? Switch to non lethal protection for this trip?

Anybody know what the conditions on the ground are there?  Typically both myself and the Household 6 have an appropriate tool within reach at all times.  The idea of going into a metro area without seems risky to me.  Perhaps it's safer due to the destination but I don't want to become a statistic.

Hills in TN are an option too and that may be a better choice but my grandparents were share croppers and they were pretty proud that they got to see Niagara Falls.  I'd really like to see it for myself.

[FALightFighter]

I went to Niagara Falls last summer with my 3, 4 nieces and nephews, and my mom. My folks live ~1-1/2hrs away, so it was a day trip. It is nice- not a significant issue. I don't recall any metal detectors or other check to view the Falls or ride the Maid-of-the-Mist.

I know that there is essentially ZERO way for a non-resident to possess, let alone carry, a pistol in NY. Canada presents a whole additional set of issues, if you want to go to that side. I haven't been over there since 9/11, and its all changed.

I felt comfortable without anything in particular there, but you have to make the call for you.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

if the environment seemed secure (and it must have if you had young there) then I'm not going to worry about it.

Some online reviews indicated that lodging was dodgy as far as safety was concerned.  I think being careful about where to stay will matter most of all.

It really brings home how defenseless an unarmed person is when the predators know you are defenseless

[Burncycle360]

I switched from a public safety career in a 2A friendly state to a career in the airlines where all bases are in major Democrat cities, so I have been facing similar issues unfortunately, with these areas stripping the law abiding of their means of protecting themselves while simultaneously absolving themselves of any liability for your protection. It's the definition of ass hanging in the wind.

 

As long as you use good sense and best practices to mitigate risk you are likely to be fine (even in higher crime states and cities it's still relatively unlikely that it will happen to you) but only you can make the call; after all, it's not the odds, it's the stakes.

 

 

 

[17thfabn]

If you are going to Niagara Falls you will want to go to the Canadian side. The views are much better from the Canadian side.

While you are there check out the river below the falls. There are trails on both the Canadian and U.S. sides. It is incredible to see how the water moves  below the falls. The Niagara river is compressed as the river narrows considerably. 

There are also a couple of old forts on the U.S. and Canadian sides. I believe they are from the Revolution and War of 1812 eras.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

the old Forts are a big deal to me.  I do have some black powder pistols.  Maybe go as a re-enactor!!

I'm not too worried about daylight activities.  I think my threat awareness is good enough for that.  It's the nighttime that is worrisome.  We do have passports so we can cross over.  I just assumed Canadian lodging would be outside of our budget.

It's funny how life works.  We got married in 1993 and had to borrow my mom's 87 Tempo to have a car reliable enough to drive to Pigeon Forge TN.  Now 30 years later we still have to watch what we spend.  In 2017 or 2018 we could've afforded to do whatever we wanted for ana anniversary trip.  Such is the cycle of life though.  I look back and shake my head at a couple of kids getting married with no idea that life was all about.  It's harder than it looks but I take a lot of faith from my grandfather's advice which was:

In our family those vows are forever, do you understand?

When there's no way out you try harder.  He was a wise man.

[17thfabn]

I think hotels are less expensive on the Canadian side . I stayed on the Canadian side when I was there a few years ago. Very safe area. Not that I thought the area around the falls on the Buffalo side was bad. There is better views from the Canadian side. And there is a carnival like area on the Canadian side. 

Due to the magic of the net you can check it out in advance.

Edited September 19, 2023 by 17thfabn

[R011]

8 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

if the environment seemed secure (and it must have if you had young there) then I'm not going to worry about it.

Some online reviews indicated that lodging was dodgy as far as safety was concerned.  I think being careful about where to stay will matter most of all.

It really brings home how defenseless an unarmed person is when the predators know you are defenseless

The Canadian side is well worth visiting, though very touristy.  The environment is quite safe and secure. You absolutely won't need to carry in any of the tourist areas and indeed, finding anywhere in the Niagara Region where you might want to would be hard.  Even Hamilton and Toronto are pretty safe unless you go lokoking for trouble.  But if you do decide to vist don't even think of bringing a firearm into the country.  You'll lose it and go to jail.

[Ivanhoe]

Similar applies to the NY state side of things. No NY Firearms ID card, pretty much guaranteed confiscation and automatic felony conviction. 

 

[Tim the Tank Nut]

okay

we can live with gun free zone.  I found reviews on Tripadvisor from a number of people that had safety concerns but we're just going to be extra careful.  Might carry a walking stick.  You'd be surprised what you can do with one of those.  Of course, when in the car I've got a 3500 lb guided (inert) missile...

Now on to better planning:

For those who have been in that area are there any "Must do" and/or any "forget it"?  I've never been to Canada so the chance to drop in is appealing.  We'll be traveling during the week rather than the weekend so hopefully not as busy.  We'll be carrying some picnic food as that makes a huge difference for budget.

There appears to be a pretty cool boat ride available.  The Perry peace memorial is sort of on the way there from KY.

Here at home everyone goes "leaf watching" in the Ohio Valley.  Do they do that in Canada?  It packs the hotels around here...

[FALightFighter]

Ride the "Maid of the Mist". It was a hit with everyone from my youngest (5 at the time) to my mom (I'm not telling :D)

Go see Ft Niagara (US side) and Ft Erie (Canadian side). Its been years, but took field trips to both of them in elementary school. 

Anchor Bar, the birthplace of the chicken wing, has a location within walking distance of the Falls, in the Holiday Inn downtown.

[Harold Jones]

This tour gives a different view of the falls https://www.niagaraparks.com/visit/attractions/niagara-parks-power-station/the-tunnel-niagara-falls  and if you don't mind getting wet there's this one https://www.niagaraparks.com/visit/attractions/journey-behind-the-falls/ I seem to remember that both of these were one tour/admission price but it's not shocking that it's changed in 30 years since my last trip to the falls.

[Allan W]

Tim, don't forget that your dollar is worth more in Canada. 

[Josh]

To be honest, I kind find the entire premise weird. I have a carry license in CT and never actually done so when I'm not going to a range. I grew up in New Haven, spent half a year in Oakland, and a decade in various neighborhoods of Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan and never felt the need to carry. Nor felt afraid in in Morrocco, El Salvador, or the tiny alleys of district 4 in Ho Chi Minh city. Addmitedly I don't have children, but the US/Canada border around Niagara is basically Disney World. I can't imagine there is significant crime for tourists outside the occasional pick pocket.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 9/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Tim the Tank Nut said:

okay

we can live with gun free zone.  I found reviews on Tripadvisor from a number of people that had safety concerns but we're just going to be extra careful.  Might carry a walking stick.  You'd be surprised what you can do with one of those.  Of course, when in the car I've got a 3500 lb guided (inert) missile...

Now on to better planning:

For those who have been in that area are there any "Must do" and/or any "forget it"?  I've never been to Canada so the chance to drop in is appealing.  We'll be traveling during the week rather than the weekend so hopefully not as busy.  We'll be carrying some picnic food as that makes a huge difference for budget.

There appears to be a pretty cool boat ride available.  The Perry peace memorial is sort of on the way there from KY.

Here at home everyone goes "leaf watching" in the Ohio Valley.  Do they do that in Canada?  It packs the hotels around here...

You want one of these.

[rmgill]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:17 PM, Tim the Tank Nut said:

the old Forts are a big deal to me.  I do have some black powder pistols.  Maybe go as a re-enactor!!

I think New York closed that window as well. 

Personally, I stay out of Mordor. I don't go to New York or New Jersey. Too many risks.

There are other falls in the US worth visiting. Some are more remote and will have less tourist issues. 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Articles-lRCUnwqQSpus-Beautiful_waterfalls_in_us.html 

Personally, I adore Graveyard Fields in NC. Initially it doesn't look like much. But it's up on the plateau and that means that the rock acts like a very fixed basin for the water. If the far side was more bowl like, it'd have turned into an upland bog millions of years ago. 
 

There's a whole set of trails and boardwalks taht get you down to the creek where you have this. There are several stages of falls. 





The trails are down in the valley with rhododendrons and other plants arching over the trails. NOT just typical trees. 

For MORE rhododendron and mountain laurel, Craggy Gardens in the right time of year up further along the BRP is glorious as well. 

Craggy Gardens is up on top of the Blue Ridge Parkway at MP 364. 

https://www.nps.gov/blri/planyourvisit/craggy-gardens.htm

[Tim the Tank Nut]

we've done the Blue Ridge and it is fantastic!  It's one place I'd be happy to see again.

 

Responding to Josh:

you may have a different threat level tolerance than I do.  When I was younger in Paris I felt completely safe until a Gendarme with a submachine gun approached and put me on my way back to a better area.  It seems I had wandered into one of those no go zones that don't exist.  We had hailed a cab that took us very far away from our destination.  Finally, we insisted that we were departing the cab and did so at a stop.  I did pay the fare.  The Gendarme approached fairly quickly (we'd walked maybe a mile and probably had eight more to go to get back to where we started.  They were helpful and we made it out whole.  My experience made me grateful to an officer that was under no obligation to help.  It was obvious we were in an unusual and run down area.  I assume that the taxi driver dropped victims off to be robbed and us leaving the car early saved us from real trouble.  The point is that you are perfectly safe until you are not and the ability to control those circumstances matters.

As a child I toured Washington DC by subway with a cousin.  We travelled all day til past midnight completely unattended.  I wouldn't be willing to take that risk now as an adult.  The surroundings have changed and the green line is no longer safe as it was.  Just before 9/11 I got stuck in New York City.  I hated it but It didn't feel dangerous to me at that time.  Would it feel dangerous to me now?  Not willing to take the chance and find out...

[17thfabn]

17 hours ago, Josh said:

To be honest, I kind find the entire premise weird. I have a carry license in CT and never actually done so when I'm not going to a range. I grew up in New Haven, spent half a year in Oakland, and a decade in various neighborhoods of Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan and never felt the need to carry. Nor felt afraid in in Morrocco, El Salvador, or the tiny alleys of district 4 in Ho Chi Minh city. Addmitedly I don't have children, but the US/Canada border around Niagara is basically Disney World. I can't imagine there is significant crime for tourists outside the occasional pick pocket.

Agreed. I've been all over the Caribbean. To Europe and many big cities in the U.S. If you stay in the well traveled popular areas you are fine most any where.  

[17thfabn]

10 hours ago, rmgill said:

I think New York closed that window as well. 

Personally, I stay out of Mordor. I don't go to New York or New Jersey. Too many risks.

There are other falls in the US worth visiting. Some are more remote and will have less tourist issues. 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Articles-lRCUnwqQSpus-Beautiful_waterfalls_in_us.html 

Personally, I adore Graveyard Fields in NC. Initially it doesn't look like much. But it's up on the plateau and that means that the rock acts like a very fixed basin for the water. If the far side was more bowl like, it'd have turned into an upland bog millions of years ago. 
 

There's a whole set of trails and boardwalks taht get you down to the creek where you have this. There are several stages of falls. 





The trails are down in the valley with rhododendrons and other plants arching over the trails. NOT just typical trees. 

For MORE rhododendron and mountain laurel, Craggy Gardens in the right time of year up further along the BRP is glorious as well. 

Craggy Gardens is up on top of the Blue Ridge Parkway at MP 364. 

https://www.nps.gov/blri/planyourvisit/craggy-gardens.htm

Those falls in North Carolina are Beautiful. Niagara Falls is a one of a kind Gem in North America. Would be terrible to miss out based on fear.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

we're going (unless something weird happens)

Fear is a strong word, let's use cautious instead.

 

Allan say the US dollar goes further in Canada.  It looks like we are going to stay on the Canadian side at night.  Is there much of an exchange rate fee?

[Allan W]

I hardly ever use cash anymore, mostly credit/debt cards.  Exchange fees will vary.  Stay far away from the bureau de change operations you see in the tourist areas. Banks generally give the best exchange rate.

If you want to see a bit beyond Niagara Falls, then Niagara on the Lake is worth a visit.  It's a half hour drive from the falls. If wine tasting is your thing, there are many good wineries in the Niagara region.

[FALightFighter]

2 hours ago, Allan W said:

I hardly ever use cash anymore, mostly credit/debt cards.  Exchange fees will vary.  Stay far away from the bureau de change operations you see in the tourist areas. Banks generally give the best exchange rate.

If you want to see a bit beyond Niagara Falls, then Niagara on the Lake is worth a visit.  It's a half hour drive from the falls. If wine tasting is your thing, there are many good wineries in the Niagara region.

Letchworth State Park, ~1 hr from Niagara Falls, is beautiful, and has really need hiking, etc. Also has the cabin of Mary Jemison, the "White Woman of the Genessee", captured as a child during the French & Indian War, and remained with the Seneca for the rest of her life, dying ~1830 @ ~90 years old. 

Plenty of decent wineries in the Southern Tier and Finger Lakes, as well.

[Harold Jones]

8 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

Allan say the US dollar goes further in Canada.  It looks like we are going to stay on the Canadian side at night.  Is there much of an exchange rate fee?

Using a bank ATM to withdraw cash will generally give a lower exchange fee. Make sure you let your bank know that you will be using your debit/atm card from Canada.  There's usually a form on their website or a number to call.  Like Allan said, using your credit/debit card to pay instead of cash is a solid option.  The transaction fees are generally low and you get up to the minute exchange rates.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

the more I look, the more there is to do in that area.  We're very stoked about going.  We've got a day's drive there and a day's drive back and it looks like two full days on site.  We can't make any time by driving fast because we're going through Ohio (wants to be Georgia).  We'll be limited to five over... sigh.

We don't mind the drive as it is part of the adventure.  Is there a certain time of day that the border crossings are less busy?

There are no political markings on the car.  I view add on stickers as a sin.  It says so in the Bible (couched in metaphysical terms of course) so I don't expect any friction there.  We dress like what we are which is old people so I figure we'll fit right in.

I do hope that we are on our way home before India's declaration of war on Canada, though.

[rmgill]

In Georgia 85mph in a 65 zone is okee dokee. Don’t do 85 in a 75 in Virginia.