War in Ukraine, assorted opinions

[Stuart Galbraith]

Just now, Roman Alymov said:

I'm sure having marine training was significant boost for their performance in killing nomads in rocky mountains of A-stan.

You mean they were useful in loosing war to religeous tribal militia, and Withdrawal that became iconic for local US loyalists  falling from the skies ? Well, probably they were.

Correct me if i am wrong: above mentioned A-stan was (or even still is -have not heard of this status removed) "Major non-NATO ally". As far as i understand, it is highest possible status for non-NATO country. This is what democracies do.

Interesting to note you have moved from "you have already lost" to "you will lose this war". 

 

Last one first, in case you hadnt realised it or your English isnt so great, thats literally the same thing. Until you sign an end to the war it obviously continues, but it is no longer winnable.

Actually they were flying Helicopters. Im sure your Hinds always hit the right targets as well.

As far as im concerned, the war was only lost because a single American president chose to lose it. The Taliban would have been pushed back into the mountains if the political will was there. In his case it was not. Not much you can do about mentally enfeebled Presidents, as im sure you have noticed.

Correct me if Im wrong, are you only bringing up Afghanistan because we still have a navy that can work to our security ends, wherever they may be, and you have one that has been completely defeated by a country that doesnt even have a navy anymore? Im just curious.

[Roman Alymov]

16 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Last one first, in case you hadnt realised it or your English isnt so great, thats literally the same thing. Until you sign an end to the war it obviously continues, but it is no longer winnable.

As for me, it is major difference. Let's wait and see. Of course Putin&Co do dream about some kind of surrender, but there is some problems on the way to it.....

37 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Actually they were flying Helicopters. Im sure your Hinds always hit the right targets as well.

Is it somehow changing the fact they were operating in conditions far from they were trained for as Navy pilots?  Sure Soviet AF Hinds weresometimes missing the targets/attacking wrong targets, even hitting own troops  - but at least they were flown by pilots trained for ground attack role. If you really want to cast shade on useless training of Soviet forces in A-stan, better analogy is Soviet VDV that were newer airdropped there, but were de-facto just light infantry....

42 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

As far as im concerned, the war was only lost because a single American president chose to lose it.

I'm sorry but it is like claiming USSR collapsed because of Gorbachev. By the way it was supposed to be war fought by democratic allience, so why was not this lonely man corrected by his fellow democratic leaders? 

45 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Correct me if Im wrong, are you only bringing up Afghanistan because we still have a navy that can work to our security ends, wherever they may be, and you have one that has been completely defeated by a country that doesnt even have a navy anymore? Im just curious.

If you do not like A-stan  - let's mention Iran tankers case. As far as i remember, Iranians with their speedboats have managed to convince mighty Royal Navy (and even more mighty US Navy) that arresting Iranian tankers on the way to Syria is bad idea?

[JWB]

[Ssnake]

On 10/2/2023 at 5:55 PM, JWB said:

Washington has committed more than $60 billion in aid to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia’s invasion in February 2022, ... Ruby Mellen and Artur Galocha report in a visual look at U.S. spending during the war. “These are off-the-charts numbers,” said Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.

It's been said before but probably deserves being repeated as long as these numbers are floated without context: These numbers do not represent actual money flowing. It's an accountancy trick to make the support appear more massive than it actually is.

M113s donated to Ukraine are effectively the value of a technical overhaul (if there was one) and the cost of shipping and training the crews. But they are booked in these statistics at "replacement value", that is, the inflation-adjusted price of their value when they were bought in 1965. But nobody plans on replacing these vehicles. They must be treated as write-offs at scrap metal value. Of course, in that case the aid from the US would look far less generous and impressive - but the impression would also be less disastrous for budget-concerned US taxpayers.

[ink]

It should also be noted that much of that money goes to contracts that are entirely US-based - i.e. much of it (most of it, in fact, according to some reports) simply stays in the US.

[Mike1158]

Always a logical situation.  Help another nation by supporting your own industries.

[JWB]

The List:

https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/#:~:text=Since January 2021%2C the United,Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

[Colin]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:40 AM, Mike1158 said:

Always a logical situation.  Help another nation by supporting your own industries.

That was the US in WWI and II

[DB]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:08 PM, Strannik said:

@Stefan Kotsch Lacking reading comprehension.

Ad hominem.

Are you going for the full bingo card, or just a line?

[DB]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:49 AM, Ssnake said:

It's been said before but probably deserves being repeated as long as these numbers are floated without context: These numbers do not represent actual money flowing. It's an accountancy trick to make the support appear more massive than it actually is.

M113s donated to Ukraine are effectively the value of a technical overhaul (if there was one) and the cost of shipping and training the crews. But they are booked in these statistics at "replacement value", that is, the inflation-adjusted price of their value when they were bought in 1965. But nobody plans on replacing these vehicles. They must be treated as write-offs at scrap metal value. Of course, in that case the aid from the US would look far less generous and impressive - but the impression would also be less disastrous for budget-concerned US taxpayers.

Alternatively, but with the same effect, they should have been amortized over their remaining life expected after the last refit. Which was probably long enough ago to be considered zero value.

Another alternative would be residual market value, which wouldn't be much above scrap value unless there were a bunch of wannabe Walts wanting them for re-enactments of America's finest hours.

[Colin]

6 hours ago, DB said:

Alternatively, but with the same effect, they should have been amortized over their remaining life expected after the last refit. Which was probably long enough ago to be considered zero value.

Another alternative would be residual market value, which wouldn't be much above scrap value unless there were a bunch of wannabe Walts wanting them for re-enactments of America's finest hours.

M113 were serving long after their expected lifespan. Money that was well spent. Prior to this war, the US was desperate to give away MRAP's and M113. The cost of scrapping them to EPA standards limits the profits.

[JWB]

 

[glenn239]

Yeah, games to cutting energy supplies to 700 million people are funny.

[bd1]

actually , 1-2 million, max.  finns built a  LNG terminal and estonia has latvian  huge underground facility that we rely on, actually we just switched on to that one 1,5 weeks before planned date. if one believes local gas company CEO on radio.

 

 

heh, took you off the ignore list for a second and did not disappoint. 

[glenn239]

1 hour ago, bd1 said:

actually , 1-2 million, max.  finns built a  LNG terminal and estonia has latvian  huge underground facility that we rely on, actually we just switched on to that one 1,5 weeks before planned date. if one believes local gas company CEO on radio.

Didn't say it was a large attack, said it was an act against Europe's energy supply.   

Quote

heh, took you off the ignore list for a second and did not disappoint.

You're welcome.  If you want my opinion, it's that using the ignore feature, and moreso announcing it, is a bit of a princess move.  I don't ever use ignore, and certainly would never announce it if I did.

[seahawk]

12 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Yeah, games to cutting energy supplies to 700 million people are funny.

Probably another Ukrainian attack.

[JWB]

 

[glenn239]

That doesn't look like the big Ukrainian offensive you've been bombarding us with updates on for 4 months.  What happened to it?  

[Roman Alymov]

23 hours ago, glenn239 said:

That doesn't look like the big Ukrainian offensive you've been bombarding us with updates on for 4 months.  What happened to it?  

It is still on, pro-Ukrainians are attacking in Zaporozhye region daily. Not much success, but formally they are still on the offencive

[mkenny]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:53 PM, glenn239 said:

That doesn't look like the big Ukrainian offensive you've been bombarding us with updates on for 4 months.  What happened to it?  

They only have to advance more than 10 miles in 4 months- if they aspire to emulate the stunning 'success' of the Ukrainian offensive (RIP)..........

Edited October 13, 2023 by mkenny

[JWB]

 

[BansheeOne]

"Israelis are Nazis" seems indeed to be a bit of a current trend on pro-Russian Telegram channels.

[Stefan Kotsch]

1 hour ago, BansheeOne said:

"Israelis are Nazis" seems indeed to be a bit of a current trend on pro-Russian Telegram channels.

Yea, for the Russians NAZI is a kind of universal word for anyone from an unfriendly country. 

[BansheeOne]

It seems a little more specific. Everyone's favorite German Putin shill Alina Lipp is sharing this clip which is allegedly making the rounds on the Russian net, showing kids in what appears to be a religion-oriented Israeli school making various crass statements about killing and enslaving Arabs etc. when asked by a teacher(?). @Mighty_Zuk could probably shed some light on the context, but the assertion here is that Israeli kids are taught to be good little fascists in school. Alina Baby is even pre-emptively stating that it might seem strange how Russians are calling first Ukrainians, then Israelis Nazis, but it's not their fault when it's true ...

[Roman Alymov]

3 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

"Israelis are Nazis" seems indeed to be a bit of a current trend on pro-Russian Telegram channels.

It is no way new, just rediscovery of Soviet practice (below is example from Beirut war time). And seems like both Israel politica/military leaders and their supporters here in Russia are now doing everything to make Soviet propaganda look like prophesy.