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War in Ukraine, assorted opinions


mandeb48

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6 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

That is weird take, taking into account amount of "rubles"  (actually, USD) were going to Western bank assets etc. Now, if we imagine repairing the submarine, welders and electricians in Sevastopol or Novorossiysk will get Roubles, not waiters or sales assistants in London/Milan/Marbelia/Miami. That is how this war is changing economy of Russia.

Many posters for a decade have been espousing the need to stand up to Russia for Ukraine, with deterrence if possible but to the last Ukrainian if necessary.   Now that the last Ukrainian is if not in sight, then at least in the cue, you see the switch in narrative to one of there being some sort of strategic value to inflicting attrition on Russian equipment in a Cold War with China. 

Edited by glenn239
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41 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

Many posters for a decade have been espousing the need to stand up to Russia for Ukraine, with deterrence if possible but to the last Ukrainian if necessary.   Now that the last Ukrainian is if not in sight, then at least in the cue, you see the switch in narrative to one of there being some sort of strategic value to inflicting attrition on Russian equipment in a Cold War with China. 

Interestingly, the same point about "Weaken the Russia" mantra here 

 

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On 9/19/2023 at 11:06 AM, Roman Alymov said:

That is weird take, taking into account amount of "rubles"  (actually, USD) were going to Western bank assets etc. Now, if we imagine repairing the submarine, welders and electricians in Sevastopol or Novorossiysk will get Roubles, not waiters or sales assistants in London/Milan/Marbelia/Miami. That is how this war is changing economy of Russia.

That's the broken window economic model.

It's broken.

 

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21 hours ago, DB said:

That's the broken window economic model.

It's broken.

Wrong analogy is leading to wrong conclusions.You are missing the point of Russian economic model. It is not window, but pipeline system. It was constructed as mechanism to pump out resources from Russia to West (for example, even if it was not Russian oil&gas sold to Europe, but Russian nuclear reactor sold to country outside of West - final destination of money was Westen bank or Western assets). Now this system is broken, and money/resources are staying more or less in Russia. One could complain about "system is broken",  others would see it as good result. 

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A cruise missile for a sub is a very good trade, blocking a drydock for a considerable amount of time is icing on the cake.

I do agree with Roman is that the days of large warships in the Black Sea are likely numbered, but I do see a need for naval vessels, just smaller and faster ones. 

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14 hours ago, Colin said:

A cruise missile for a sub is a very good trade, blocking a drydock for a considerable amount of time is icing on the cake.

I do agree with Roman is that the days of large warships in the Black Sea are likely numbered, but I do see a need for naval vessels, just smaller and faster ones. 

Seems you just found a place to send all those LCSs the USN wants to retire...

Edited by sunday
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On 9/22/2023 at 1:23 PM, Roman Alymov said:

Wrong analogy is leading to wrong conclusions.You are missing the point of Russian economic model. It is not window, but pipeline system. It was constructed as mechanism to pump out resources from Russia to West (for example, even if it was not Russian oil&gas sold to Europe, but Russian nuclear reactor sold to country outside of West - final destination of money was Westen bank or Western assets). Now this system is broken, and money/resources are staying more or less in Russia. One could complain about "system is broken",  others would see it as good result. 

The window mender and glass vendor both believe it is a good system, everyone else knows it's shit.

Defence spending is a necessary evil, to prevent paranoid maniacs from inventing invasion excuses and murdering their neighbours. Escalating your military spending beyond that required for a credible self-defence capability is dumb as rocks, and predicating your entire economic model on it results in North Korea. You're welcome to that model.

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On 9/23/2023 at 2:13 AM, sunday said:

Seems you just found a place to send all those LCSs the USN wants to retire...

Only if we don't want them to win.....

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10 minutes ago, sunday said:

Do you mean, it is possible to not send obsolete material to the Ukraine instead to a scrapper?

Italians would be surprised! 😄

They are new and useless. Likely good for the Italians hunting drug runners, but that's about it.

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On 9/24/2023 at 5:55 PM, JWB said:

Hitler Youth?

 

Reality. The West has attacked Russia and it will be a decades long war now. Those kids will be fighting in 15 years time. Maybe for Berlin or Paris, maybe for Moscow if things go bad, but they will have to fight.

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11 hours ago, Colin said:

They are new and useless. Likely good for the Italians hunting drug runners, but that's about it.

The Taiwanese were considering buying the decommissioned LCS, not sure what they decided in the end (or whether they're still thinking about it). Seems like an awful idea though.

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