BansheeOne Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, urbanoid said: Ok then, let's assume that the march is stopped like they say. In the morning Putin promised to deal with the 'traitors', now he's cutting a deal with them via Lukashenka. I certainly can't imagine his position being strong after all that. You can certainly not act like nothing happened after a couple thousand mercenary troops marched on Moscow against expressive orders in the middle of a war, got attacked by regular aviation which also blew up a fuel depot to avoid it being used, shot down half a dozen helicopters and an airborne command post, and interior forces tore up motorways and built up defensive positions outside Moscow while everyone with a private jet was fleeing the city.
Strannik Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Strannik said: Worst case: circus will be gone, but the clowns would remain behind. Rumors that Shoigu/Gerasimov will resign.
rmgill Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Olof Larsson said: It took Russia 16 months to advance 7 kilometers vs. Ukraine in Putins Blyatkrieg, but only a day to advance 500 kilometers in Prigozhins Vodka Run. Easy to effect a breakthrough when all the combat power is forward and your force effects an about face retrograde movement. Did the entire Wagner force pull out of the line?
rmgill Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Correct me here. Wagner’s boss cannot go back to before. He’s made a move that cannot be undone.
sunday Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 So, to some distress of people, seems Russophobia Happy Day™ is over. Nevertheless, Putin's political capital has been reduced, and that Wagner guy could be seen as starting to have too much power.
Strannik Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Official: * Charges dropped against Prigozhin, who will leave for Belarus * Wagner fighters who didn't take part in the coup will sign contracts with the MoD, amnesty for the rest Edited June 24, 2023 by Strannik
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, rmgill said: Easy to effect a breakthrough when all the combat power is forward and your force effects an about face retrograde movement. Did the entire Wagner force pull out of the line? To my understanding, they pulled them all out the line several weeks back, presumably as a counter offensive force.
Laser Shark Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Strannik said: Official: * Charges dropped against Prigozhin, who will leave for Belarus * Wagner fighters who didn't take part in the coup will sign contracts with the MoD, amnesty for the rest So, Prigzy is just a colossal moron after all. Well, I hope he enjoys the rest the (short) time he has left on this planet.
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, rmgill said: Correct me here. Wagner’s boss cannot go back to before. He’s made a move that cannot be undone. Yes, but so has Putin. No more strong man.
txtree99 Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, sunday said: So, to some distress of people, seems Russophobia Happy Day™ is over. Nevertheless, Putin's political capital has been reduced, and that Wagner guy could be seen as starting to have too much power. Wagners influence is going to be reduced after this.
sunday Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 26 minutes ago, txtree99 said: Wagners influence is going to be reduced after this. It should. That does not mean it shall. We will see how well centralized the Russian state is.
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) We have reached peak weird. Just like Napoleon at Elba. Except of course, he actually took Moscow. Edited June 24, 2023 by Stuart Galbraith
Ivanhoe Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: We have reached peak weird. Stuart, for the love of God please do not throw down such a challenge to fate/karma/the universe. We've barely dodged murder hornets, monkeypox, and 50 years ago, polyester leisure suits.
Mike1158 Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 You had to mention the suits. I'm going to lie down in a very dark room.
bojan Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: 13 kia in VKS, 15 kia total (not clear hiw two kia on ground happened). Il-22 com bird 3 x Mi-8 EW 1 x regular Mi-8 1 x Ka-52 1 x Mi-35 1 x Mi-28 heavily damaged Worst day for VKS since airborne command plane was shot down by Syrians. Edited June 24, 2023 by bojan
Wouter2 Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 21 minutes ago, bojan said: 13 kia in VKS, 15 kia total (not clear hiw two kia on ground happened). Il-22 com bird 3 x Mi-8 EW 1 x regular Mi-8 1 x Ka-52 1 x Mi-35 1 x Mi-28 heavily damaged Worst day for VKS since airborne command plane was shot down by Syrians. 3 Mi8 EW variant, that's an enormous loss if true. They lost 2 earlier to that Ukrainian SAM ambush, and there aren't many. Where was the damaged Mi-28 reported?
Josh Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Weird that ECM aircraft suffered so heavily. That seems quite intentional. Not sure why.
Wouter2 Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, Josh said: Weird that ECM aircraft suffered so heavily. That seems quite intentional. Not sure why. I would guess that either it was intentional because those could potentially jam Wagner comms, or else it was semi-accidentally as those choppers happened to take off from the airbase in order to escape and Wagner air defence saw a threat (they could have been armed helos about to attack, I suppose a Pantsir or Strela operator wouldn't know in advance).
bojan Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 30 minutes ago, Wouter2 said: 3 Mi8 EW variant, that's an enormous loss if true. They lost 2 earlier to that Ukrainian SAM ambush, and there aren't many. Where was the damaged Mi-28 reported? https://t.me/milhelipilot/1281
Wouter2 Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, bojan said: https://t.me/milhelipilot/1281 Thanks. A later update. The Mi-28 doesn't seem to have much succes in this conflict. While the Ka52 has pretty bad losses (mostly due to risks taken earlier in the war), at least those also got a reputation for being lethal.
Josh Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 The Ka-52 does seem to be bad ass and suffer casualties from over use, anecdotally.
sunday Posted June 25, 2023 Posted June 25, 2023 Some thoughts post-coup https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/prigozhins-siege-ends-postmortem
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