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The Kremlin is burning?


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“The problem with mercenaries is that they need to be paid to start fighting. And, unless you are very lucky, you end up paying them even more to stop”

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2 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

I think last year there were speculations that they were originally intended for India, but Russian Army decided to send them to Ukraine instead.

Yeah, I forgot to add "requisitioned" in there, but forum borked before I could edit the post.

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9 minutes ago, sunday said:

Remarkable the bit from 1:44 on. Putin states that revolutionaries betrayed Russia in 1917, and that the current rebels are doing the same.

Yeah, that bit seemed peculiar. Putin sounded more pro-classic Russia empire rather than pro-SU with that which why so that. Both not so different I guess. It was the SU that faught the great patriotic war. Just a punch line statement maybe.

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11 minutes ago, Sardaukar said:

One funny comment by Finnish commentator: "Ukrainian counter-offensive sure came from surprising direction..." 

There might be a lot of truth in this

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https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1672523999425994752

image.png

 

With what's been going on of late, who in their right mind that owns a private jet would still be hanging around in Moscow? I would have relocated to St. Pete or Tbilisi long ago...

 

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4 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1672523999425994752

image.png

 

With what's been going on of late, who in their right mind that owns a private jet would still be hanging around in Moscow? I would have relocated to St. Pete or Tbilisi long ago...

 

Even Lukashenkos jet has gone to Turkey. Putins jet is in St Petersburg.

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I know lots of people are taking pleasure in this turn of events... or just laughing at it... and that's perfectly understandable. However, I find it pretty terrifying, if I'm honest. Hope Russia's strategic forces are being looked after responsibly while everything else goes to shit.

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Some thoughts on the matter, more reasoned.

Without apologies to WWIII-mongers

Quote

Even Strelkov believes it’s fake:

On reflection, I completely reject and consider Prigozhin's statement that the Russian Armed Forces launched a missile attack on the Wagner location this afternoon, and consider it a complete lie. If there was a blow, then only Wagner himself could deliver it (logically) (or rather, a staging). Reason: to eliminate the "Wagner" it is absolutely not necessary to inflict any blows on some camps. Enough to "bang" Prigogine himself. Well, maybe someone else from his inner circle along with him. And that's it. And hitting ordinary soldiers and commanders is utter stupidity - even Shoigu and Gerasimov have enough sense for this. Now, if Prigozhin himself with his "council of commanders" were covered with a rocket, I would still believe it. And so it's a lie. Dot.

Quote

I’ll leave you with one last interesting analysis some of which underscores the points I made earlier:

It means like this:

1) The Wagner mutiny began clearly prematurely. The front is not broken, ukry do not win. In this situation, rebellion means "stab in the back" and the army will not support it.

2) The prematurity of the rebellion (which was clearly planned in advance) is caused by a simple fact: in the near future, Prigozhin would certainly be deprived of the main part of his troops - to maintain even a 30,000th military group at his own expense, without the support of the state (read - funds and materials from the Moscow Region RF) - he definitely could not have been for more than a couple of months (and even then - hardly);

3) At the moment there are no videos, etc. evidence of the active actions of the "Wagners". There is information that their forces in the rear training camps did not know anything at all and were not ready to act. With a high probability - only a part of the units concentrated in the Lugansk region takes part in the rebellion.

4) "Campaign to Moscow" for "Wagner" is extremely difficult - most tanks simply will not reach Moscow on their own, it is generally useless to drag artillery to Moscow, and attacking in light armored vehicles means risking defeat along the road, which is generally "easier than easy ". Everything rests solely on the presence of loyal units ready to fulfill the order and open fire to kill ("Akhmat" may well execute, for example, and not only "Akhmat")

5) If by the morning (that is, after 5-6 hours) "Wagner" does not achieve significant success (and so far no success has been heard of it) and military units do not openly go over to its side, the rebellion will drag on and every day it the final success will be more and more improbable... well, if the Kremlin doesn't screw up out of habit, of course, and start urgently "searching for compromises" and exposing Prigozhin to use the overworked nose of a well-known VIP official.

 

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4 minutes ago, ink said:

I know lots of people are taking pleasure in this turn of events... or just laughing at it... and that's perfectly understandable. However, I find it pretty terrifying, if I'm honest. Hope Russia's strategic forces are being looked after responsibly while everything else goes to shit.

I agree with you on this. Sadly some people are struggling to understand what a Russian Civil War would mean for the world. A nuclear power is on the verge of collapse and this means increased uncertainty for all of us, not only for them. Some truly don't understand the danger that the Russians and all of us will face in the coming days, months, years.

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54 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

Thanks, @bojan. Strange. I didn't know that Russia operated this variant, but a bit googling suggests that they might be Indian ones that were in Russia to undergo modernization?

Either run-over from Indian contract that was in storage, or non-delivered ones to IIRC Uganda.

  

36 minutes ago, futon said:

...Putin sounded more pro-classic Russia empire rather than pro-SU...

Told you 10 years ago.

Edited by bojan
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8 minutes ago, Critical said:

I agree with you on this. Sadly some people are struggling to understand what a Russian Civil War would mean for the world. A nuclear power is on the verge of collapse and this means increased uncertainty for all of us, not only for them. Some truly don't understand the danger that the Russians and all of us will face in the coming days, months, years.

Some of us remember what happened in 1991. No sense in worrying, it's too late for that. Personally I'm going to ride this strange torpedo to the end and enjoy myself.

Besides, we could have avoided all this by confronting Putin years ago when he was weak. Instead we appeased him. Play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

Now, where's my popcorn...

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laughing is method of coping with stress.

Anthony Beevor  quoted a officer in his ´´Inside British Army´´  that went something like ´sick sense of humor is directly related to  tolerance of stress´ . and added that currently, political correctness is killing sick humor and stress tolerance with it. that was in 1991  🙂

 

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21 minutes ago, Critical said:

I agree with you on this. Sadly some people are struggling to understand what a Russian Civil War would mean for the world. A nuclear power is on the verge of collapse and this means increased uncertainty for all of us, not only for them. Some truly don't understand the danger that the Russians and all of us will face in the coming days, months, years.

Me being scared or cheerful won't affect the internal Russian situation, sooo... I choose to be cheerful and enjoy the ride.

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13 minutes ago, bd1 said:

laughing is method of coping with stress.

Anthony Beevor  quoted a officer in his ´´Inside British Army´´  that went something like ´sick sense of humor is directly related to  tolerance of stress´ . and added that currently, political correctness is killing sick humor and stress tolerance with it. that was in 1991  🙂

 

Most people who have seen stressful situations (combat, accidents etc.) develope bit "twisted" sense of humour. It is a coping mechanism and still, very funny too ;) 

Kind of like RUC officer who had lost his arm in bomb attack and had it replaced with mechanical one...so obviously lads gave him can of WD-40 as b-day present.... :D

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