The Kremlin is burning?

[Christian Lupine]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:57 PM, Roman Alymov said:

Strongly recommended - seems like at least some people in West took their time to actually study the subject they are talking about

 

Very interesting, thank you for recommending. 

[Roman Alymov]

Back to Wagner story:

"Putin met with Prigozhin and the commanders of the Wagner PMCs

They gave their assessment of SVO and the events of June 24. The meeting took place on June 29

Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Yevgeny Prigozhin and the commanders of the Wagner PMCs in the Kremlin on June 29, gave his assessment of the company's actions at the front, as well as the events of June 24, press secretary of the head of state Dmitry Peskov told TASS. The Kremlin representative noted that other details of the meeting are unknown.

"The President had such a meeting. He invited 35 people to it — all the squad commanders and the company's management, including Prigozhin himself. This meeting took place in the Kremlin on June 29. It lasted almost three hours," he commented on the corresponding publication of the Liberation edition.

At a meeting with Putin, the Wagner commanders assured that they were his staunch supporters and were ready to continue fighting for the Motherland. The President of the Russian Federation offered Wagner employee employment options, Peskov said." (https://www.bfm.ru/news/529300)

    Taking into account that, unlike Prigozhin, "squad commanders" are grassroot military who left regular Army because of bureoucracy, or are from pro-Russian militia of Novorossia, it is interesting what they have told Putin.....

[urbanoid]

 

[JWB]

Russians Fear the Worst Is Yet to Come, New Polling Indicates (msn.com)

 

Russian Public Approval of Ukraine War Dropping Rapidly: Survey (msn.com)

[X-Files]

Wagner Fighters Executed for Refusing to Take Part in Mutiny (msn.com)

[JWB]

A Russian soldier said his unit was sent into battle with no ammo and one grenade each — to kill themselves (msn.com)

[X-Files]

On 7/12/2023 at 12:17 PM, JWB said:

Russians Fear the Worst Is Yet to Come, New Polling Indicates (msn.com)

 

Russian Public Approval of Ukraine War Dropping Rapidly: Survey (msn.com)

 

6 minutes ago, JWB said:

A Russian soldier said his unit was sent into battle with no ammo and one grenade each — to kill themselves (msn.com)

 

How are any of these about Wagner?

[JWB]

8 minutes ago, X-Files said:

How are any of these about Wagner?

Does it matter?

[Josh]

36 minutes ago, JWB said:

Does it matter?

This is the Wagner topic. Those are probably best left in the Kiev thread.

[urbanoid]

Correction, it WAS a Wagner topic.

[JWB]

16 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Correction, it WAS a Wagner topic.

True for several reasons.

[X-Files]

9 hours ago, JWB said:

Does it matter?

 

The whole world must taste like Windex. eh?

[Mike1158]

Smell like it anyway.

[Stuart Galbraith]

As far as Wagner is concerned, there are concerns in Poland that they may do something crazy and attack Suwalki Gap. Cant personally see much in it, but there are discussions Poland may redeploy units to the Belarus border just to be on the safe side. After all, the crazy fucker did go halfway to Moscow, I dont blame them for wanting to be careful.

[JWB]

A mercenary who took part in the attempted mutiny against Russian President Vladimir Putin says he and his fellow fighters "didn't have a clue" what was going on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66247915?at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=4D15B70C-292F-11EE-93BD-3169AD7C7D13&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_link_origin=BBCWorld&at_link_type=web_link

[X-Files]

A Wagner Group official identified as Marx said that 78,000 fighters went to Ukraine with the mercenary group, and 22,000 were killed, according to Telegram channel Razgruzka Vagnera. The figures were said to be accurate as of May 20.

News from Wagner often emerges from strange places in Russia's media, including in the past from the press office of founder Yevgeny Prigozhin's catering company.

Razgruzka Vagnrea (Russian for "unloading Wagner") is affiliated with Wagner high command, The Moscow Times reported, and has been the source of news about the group before.

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/wagner-losses-in-ukraine-are-huge-28-percent-dead-official-2023-7

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by X-Files

[Josh]

I think the only thing we know is that we don’t know.

 

But if you pitched this as a Hollywood movie: “an independent Russian army made of veterans and ex prisoners decides that instead of fighting the war, they will drive to Moscow and the nearest tactical nuclear weapons storage unit and take back their country for themselves!!!”

 

…you’d be laughed out of a Netflix office. It’s basically the Russian equivalent of Dirty Dozen crossed with Kelly’s Heroes with some The Wild Geese thrown in, only with 1000x more dudes and the coup of a major nuclear power thrown in.

 

Theres no way a machine could make that up; artificial intelligence is no match for human stupidity.

[ZORK]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

I think the only thing we know is that we don’t know.

 

 

 

Theres no way a machine could make that up; artificial intelligence is no match for human stupidity.

I am onboard.........well stated........

[Roman Alymov]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

But if you pitched this as a Hollywood movie: “an independent Russian army made of veterans and ex prisoners decides that instead of fighting the war, they will drive to Moscow and the nearest tactical nuclear weapons storage unit and take back their country for themselves!!!”

…you’d be laughed out of a Netflix office. It’s basically the Russian equivalent of Dirty Dozen crossed with Kelly’s Heroes with some The Wild Geese thrown in, only with 1000x more dudes and the coup of a major nuclear power thrown in.

No doubt you’d be laughed out of a Netflix office for a strong reason: this scenario is demonstrating fundamental misunderstanding of the process. There is no "independent Russian army" -it is unit(s) controlled by the big group of very high-ranking officials from President Administration and other institutions, like special services and even MoI - for example, police in both Moscow and Rostov was directly ordered "frome above" not to provide any resistance to Wagner and only care about maintaining regular law and order on the streets.  

[Stuart Galbraith]

Th way Id prefer to interpret it, all those guys THOUGHT they had control of Wagner, and then found it was actually headed by a crazy former Chef with his own personnel agenda. I cant see any circumstances under which any of those people would have called a halt to it when it started moving if they REALLY wanted to remove Putin. The only person who ultimately was in control of Wagner on the day was Prighozin.

Its kind of like a reverse August Coup. The plotters thought they had control of the Army, and found out that the Army decided to disobey their orders and come down on the side of the people. Here the 'owners' of Wagner if thats the right word, shareholders, moneymakers? All thought they owned Wagner. But it turned out, they really didnt, not in any way that really mattered. Least of all Putin.

I think Prighozhin did what he wanted, expected them to support him, and it all started to rapidly fall apart when they didnt.

I dont think there is any other explanation that makes a lot of sense. Im not buying he captured a nuclear weapons stockpile. If he had, Im pretty sure Gerasimov and Shoigu would have been stood against a wall by the end of the day, because he could dictate any terms he liked. It may however, be a useful cover story for why Putin decided to soft pedal his response.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Stuart Galbraith

[Markus Becker]

Nothing to see here

 

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

I think it pretty much long established that when you die, everyones heart stops. The cause of the heart stopping can be myriad as, oh I dont know, the wrong tea, chemical weapons, even falling out of a casually open window.

 

[Roman Alymov]

8 minutes ago, Markus Becker said:

Nothing to see here

 

 

Taking into consideration this man was PC gaming fan since childhood (and one of creators of cybersport in Russia) is is not so "mysterious" as it is hardly healthy lifestyle  https://www.rbc.ru/business/22/07/2023/64bb81c99a79471aa630b144?ysclid=lkgomfj9rr428541757

[Stuart Galbraith]

Ive been playing computer games since the 1980's. I hardly have a healthy lifestyle. And yet here I am at 50, somehow clinging to life.

 

[Roman Alymov]

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

Ive been playing computer games since the 1980's. I hardly have a healthy lifestyle. And yet here I am at 50, somehow clinging to life.

First, "playing" and being champion in it is hardly the same. Second, all people are different - one of our Kubinka team members died aged 39, just stopped his car on the side of highway and died on drivers seat - and he was not unhealthy person, normal family father of 2. And other people with lifetime history of drugs and alchogol are making to their 70th....

     Actually Western media grasping to any news of somebody died in Russia is indicating of no other victories to report - the same way pro-Ukrainians are reporting every heavy rain or building fire in Riussia to their audience.....