The Kremlin is burning?

[JWB]

According to Bloomberg, a Russian gas tanker has traveled halfway around the world in 4 months but has not found a buyer.
https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1872264382379618699

[Yama]

On 12/23/2024 at 2:57 PM, urbanoid said:

Well, not technically medieval, they didn't have that much to say in medieval Poland. Sure, the origins of 'noble democracy' are in late medieval period, but they were working great at the time and for some time after the middle ages ended too. Ruining a country had almost nothing to do with the treatment of peasants (I'm not aware about them being killed at will) and almost everything with legal and systemic paralysis, with the impotence of the royal rule and also finances. One of the worst aspects of noble democracy, the liberum veto (one deputy could prevent the laws from being passed) was originally meant to be a shield against the tyranny of the majority, ultimately it became a tyranny of the minority (of one) and blocked many attempts to reform the state. Actually it's kinda impressive that liberum veto was used so many decades after it became law (some 70-80 years IIRC).

Maybe that had to do with inherently multi-ethnic and de-centralized nature of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? Seems to me that Austria-Hungary suffered somewhat similar issues much, much later on: too many built-in compromises within the system.

Wasn't Chodkiewicz forced to use his own money to fight Swedish invasion, as the Parliament was not just giving him any?

[Yama]

On 12/24/2024 at 11:13 AM, ink said:

I have a vastly different take on it personally. My feeling is that the ostensible national-level democracy (in the US, say) no longer serves the interests of the very rich. They're fine with it being replaced by something else, where careful management of the population acts as a surrogate to the 'illusion of choice' that came before it. I don't expect that'll be all that sustainable in the long-term but I could be wrong about that.

Sure will be interesting to see how that'll affect smaller countries that really bought into democracy in a big way.

One of Finland's wealthiest men already wrote a pamflet about that, proclaiming that democracy does not work, because low-income people vote 'irrationally'. Most of the political decisionmaking should be left for the market forces (ie. the rich). No surprise, Liberals proclaimed him a prophet.

(note - 'Liberal' has bit different meaning here than within the Anglosphere).

On 12/24/2024 at 5:03 PM, ink said:

The NY Post is a garbage outlet and I'm happy to dismiss it out of hand. But, I'd be happy to pay more attention if you can find the actual study that article is based on.

Anyway, IQ scores are a pretty crappy way of gauging "intelligence".

That has been happening here, too, and it is linked to underfunding of the education system.

'IQ' is of course largely a cultural construct: no doubt that if some First World MENSA person was teleported in the middle of some Amazonian tribe, he/she would be considered extraordinarily stupid by locals.

[Roman Alymov]

5 hours ago, Yama said:

One of Finland's wealthiest men already wrote a pamflet about that, proclaiming that democracy does not work, because low-income people vote 'irrationally'. Most of the political decisionmaking should be left for the market forces (ie. the rich). No surprise, Liberals proclaimed him a prophet.

  At least some of Russian pro-Western liberals are also considering some sort of income/education voting qualification to be a good thing, quoting Winston Churchill who, as they claim, once said, “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

      In general, elite wants only elite members to take part in decision making process.

[seahawk]

The rich controlled the media for decades and so they controlled the elections. Social Media changed this and people now get access to real information and now they are no longer as easy to control. Look at Germany, after 7 decades of bootlicking of the Anglo-Americans, now Parties willing to end the occupation and to build an alliance with our  natural partner Russia are seeing 30% and more. Russia and Telegram did a lot for freedom in Europe.

[Roman Alymov]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:57 PM, urbanoid said:

Well, not technically medieval, they didn't have that much to say in medieval Poland. Sure, the origins of 'noble democracy' are in late medieval period, but they were working great at the time and for some time after the middle ages ended too. Ruining a country had almost nothing to do with the treatment of peasants (I'm not aware about them being killed at will) and almost everything with legal and systemic paralysis, with the impotence of the royal rule and also finances. One of the worst aspects of noble democracy, the liberum veto (one deputy could prevent the laws from being passed) was originally meant to be a shield against the tyranny of the majority, ultimately it became a tyranny of the minority (of one) and blocked many attempts to reform the state. Actually it's kinda impressive that liberum veto was used so many decades after it became law (some 70-80 years IIRC).

Then again it's not those attitudes that were adopted, more of a 'freedom, baby!' and 'don't fucking tell me what to do' approach.

   Here is big article where it is mentioned (actually, quite from Kostomarov,  1817-1885)  - in Russian but quite translatable О польской свободѣ и русскомъ рабстве

   Ironically, as capitalism started filtering into feudal Poland, by XVIII century it was Russian peasants turn to run into what was Poland atn that time (as in Russian Empire nobiles were granted more rights then in Muskovy  - on peasants expense of course), But it was allready too late for Poland, as by this time it was only shade of its former might and glory.

[Yama]

17 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

 Ironically, as capitalism started filtering into feudal Poland, by XVIII century it was Russian peasants turn to run into what was Poland atn that time (as in Russian Empire nobiles were granted more rights then in Muskovy  - on peasants expense of course), But it was allready too late for Poland, as by this time it was only shade of its former might and glory.

That may have been due to increased influence of Baltic German nobility following Peter the Great's conquests: they were staunch supporters of serfdom. Supposedly Estonian landfolk called Swedish rule "vana hea Rootsi aeg", ie. "Good old Swedish era".

[Roman Alymov]

50 minutes ago, Yama said:

That may have been due to increased influence of Baltic German nobility following Peter the Great's conquests: they were staunch supporters of serfdom. Supposedly Estonian landfolk called Swedish rule "vana hea Rootsi aeg", ie. "Good old Swedish era".

It was actually part of the problem: post-Peter I Emperors and top nobiles were, to great degree, of Baltic German (or just German, as Catherine the Great) origin, often of questionable rights to their position, so they were in bad need to strengthn their greep on power  - and the onlyt way to do that was by pleasing wide masses of landlords by granting them extra benefits (at peasant's expence of course). Massive peasant war led by Pugachev, that rocked Russian Empire almost as Spartak uprising rocked Roman Republic, was sideeffect of that process.

     Also. there was economic reason: old feudal militia system of landlords mandatory serving as heavy cavalry and provided by villagers attached to them with means to live and buy horses and weapons, was no more needed - as was replaced by regular Army. So peasants and nobiles were no more working on the same task of national self-defence.....

Edited December 28, 2024 by Roman Alymov

[mkenny]

On 12/27/2024 at 7:30 AM, seahawk said:

 Social Media changed this and people now get access to real information and now they are no longer as easy to control. 

Ah yes the 'do your own research' fallacy.

First you craft your lie.

Then you set up websites that repeat/echo that lie.

Then you link those lies in all your posts about your original lie.

The simple minded people Google your lie and the hits that  confirm are used whilst contrary opinion is ignored.

Hey presto research  confirms 'you'  are telling the truth and 'the experts' are wrong!

 

It is  straight from the right's 'war on education' playbook

[Stefan Kotsch]

A reader comment from Russia:

Nothing will change under the current government, it will only get worse, there is no need for explanations, we know where the money goes, we need to stop the Special Military Operation and deal with the internal problems of our country, many are not aware of this fly into the abyss.

Agreed:  61
Rejected: 1

There was no need to start it.

Agreed:  43
Rejected: 3

https://74.ru/text/economics/2024/12/28/74925449/comments/?commentId=102849913

[Roman Alymov]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

A reader comment from Russia:

Nothing will change under the current government, it will only get worse, there is no need for explanations, we know where the money goes, we need to stop the Special Military Operation and deal with the internal problems of our country, many are not aware of this fly into the abyss.

Agreed:  61
Rejected: 1

There was no need to start it.

Agreed:  43
Rejected: 3

https://74.ru/text/economics/2024/12/28/74925449/comments/?commentId=102849913

Another opinion from Russia https://t.me/voprosvlasti/634

"Due to the systematic demonstration of weakness on the part of the Russian authorities, even a country like Finland is completely unafraid of any consequences for itself after a direct act of aggression against a naval vessel that, according to international maritime law, has the exclusive jurisdiction of the Russian Federation. 
The Finnish Coast Guard boarded the Russian vessel Orel S in connection with the alleged Russian sabotage under water. The vessel was towed to Finland. The Finns suspect that the ship was used for sabotage on Internet cables laid along the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
We can be absolutely sure that there will be no consequences for Finland for this act of aggression. The Kremlin leadership has repeatedly demonstrated its complete impotence in defending the country's sovereignty in the international arena. Putin's partners, the direct enemies of the Russian Federation, recently blew up the Ursa Major ship, which belonged to the Oboronlogistics company, in the open sea. Two dead. There are zero consequences."

[Stefan Kotsch]

17 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

the Russian vessel Orel S

Well, it is a Cook Island-flagged vessel. 🤭 Besides, you should take care of your anchor. And please do not overload the power supply generators with excessive radio equipment.

[Roman Alymov]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

Well, it is a Cook Island-flagged vessel. 🤭 

Yes i know, but it is not making Finland actions less piracy. 

4 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

Besides, you should take care of your anchor. And please do not overload the power supply generators with excessive radio equipment.

It is not up to Finland to decide who is to do what in international waters. Remind me please, where is Chinese vessel that lost anchor in simmilar conditions not so long ago?

[Stefan Kotsch]

You started the war. Then you also pay the price for it.

[Roman Alymov]

7 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

You started the war. Then you also pay the price for it.

Please remind me when "we" started the war on Finland. Last time it was Finland who started the war (as Nazi Germany ally), and they lost in 1944 (by the way betraying its ally in the end, but who cares).

[Stefan Kotsch]

I would be happy to oblige:

7 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Please remind me when "we" started the war on Finland.

The Soviets made several demands, including that Finland cede substantial border territories in exchange for land elsewhere, claiming security reasons – primarily the protection of Leningra, 32 km (20 mi) from the Finnish border. When Finland refused, the Soviets invaded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

or:

Citing security considerations for Leningrad, located near the Finnish border, the Soviet leadership put forward several proposals throughout 1938 and 1939 for Finland to cede border territories (the Karelian Isthmus, islands in the Gulf of Finland, part of the Petsamo region) in exchange for lands in Karelia , which were twice the size of the requested territories, although they were wetlands. Finland refused these proposals. On November 26, 1939, the USSR government sent a note of protest to the Finnish government regarding the artillery shelling, which, according to the Soviet side, was carried out from Finnish territory [Gleiwitz: They've been firing back since 5:45 a.m.!]. On November 30, the USSR launched an invasion of Finland. The outbreak of hostilities led to the fact that on December 14, 1939, the USSR, as an aggressor, was expelled from the League of Nations.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Советско-финляндская_война_(1939—1940)

 

Here read, this is the same Russian-German way of starting wars. Putin justifies his attack on Ukraine with Hitler's arguments.

In 1939, ...  Hitler offered Poland peace and a treaty of friendship and alliance..., demanding in return that Poland give back to Germany the so-called Danzig Corridor, which connected the bulk of Germany with East Prussia and Konigsberg. ...  Hitler asked them to give it amicably, but the Poles refused.
...
As the Poles had not given the Danzig Corridor to Germany, and went too far, they pushed Hitler to start World War II by attacking them.
Why was it Poland against whom the war started on September 1, 1939? Poland turned out to be uncompromising, and Hitler had nothing else to do but start implementing his plans with Poland. 

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/73411

 

[Roman Alymov]

Just now, Stefan Kotsch said:

I would be happy to obli

1 minute ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

I would be happy to oblige:

 

 

Let me remind you it was not the last war (and previous one you mentioned was not the first).

[urbanoid]

51 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Please remind me when "we" started the war on Finland. Last time it was Finland who started the war (as Nazi Germany ally), and they lost in 1944 (by the way betraying its ally in the end, but who cares).

It was called a Continuation War for a reason. Continuation of the one started by Stalin in 1939.

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Yes i know, but it is not making Finland actions less piracy. 

It is not up to Finland to decide who is to do what in international waters. Remind me please, where is Chinese vessel that lost anchor in simmilar conditions not so long ago?

There is no indication Finnish law enforcement were aware of what actually happened. It could have been a bird strike or oxygen tank explosion that pushed a Finnish patrol vessel into the Eagle S.

[Stefan Kotsch]

2 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Let me remind you it was not the last war (and previous one you mentioned was not the first).

I wrote about the first war against Finland, which started on 30. November 1939. Was there another one before that?

[MiGG0]

7 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

I wrote about the first war against Finland, which started on 30. November 1939. Was there another one before that?

Well, finns did fight russians (using broad term of both=population that now live in those lands) centruries under Swedish rule (and everyone else that swedes were fighting). Finns were biggest single ethnic group in Swedish army relatively their total population (IIRC second biggest overall after swedes themselfs)

Edited December 29, 2024 by MiGG0

[yochlol]

Irrelevant, once you realize Finland is actually Russia

[Roman Alymov]

20 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

I wrote about the first war against Finland, which started on 30. November 1939. Was there another one before that?

In the period from 1918 to 1944, there were four armed conflicts between the RSFSR (then the USSR) and Finland.:

The Soviet-Finnish Armed Conflict (1918-1920) was the fighting between the White Finnish troops and Red Army units in Soviet Russia from March 1918 to October 1920. Initially, they were conducted informally. Already from March 1918, during the Finnish Civil War, the White Finnish troops, pursuing the enemy (the Finnish "Reds"), crossed the Russian-Finnish border and in a number of places entered Eastern Karelia (see North Karelian State). At the same time, the military operations carried out were not always partisan in nature (see Olonets campaign, Olonets government). Officially, the war with the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic was declared by the democratic Government of Finland on May 15, 1918[1] after the defeat of the Finnish Socialist Workers' Republic. The Soviet-Finnish armed conflict (1918-1920) was part of the Russian Civil War and Foreign military Intervention in northern Russia. It ended on October 14, 1920 with the signing of the Tartu Peace Treaty between the RSFSR and Finland.

Karelian Uprising (1921-1922) It began on November 6, 1921, with the invasion of Karelia by Finnish volunteer formations in the RSFSR. No war was declared. It ended on March 21, 1922, with the signing in Moscow of an agreement between the governments of the RSFSR and Finland on taking measures to ensure the inviolability of the Soviet-Finnish border.

The Soviet-Finnish War (1939-1940) It began: on November 30, 1939, as stated in the official message, "by order of the Main Command of the Red Army, in view of new armed provocations by the Finnish military, the troops of the Leningrad Military District crossed the Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus and in a number of other areas at 8 a.m. on November 30."[2] Ended on March 13, 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty between Finland and the USSR the day before.

The Soviet-Finnish War (1941-1944) was a military action between Finnish and Soviet troops in Karelia during the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War It began on June 22, 1941, with the occupation of the demilitarized zone of the Aland Islands by Finnish troops (see the Beginning of the War section). It ended: in fact, on September 19, 1944, with the signing of the Armistice Agreement, formally with the Paris Peace Treaty of 1947.

(translated from Советско-финские войны — Википедия _

[MiGG0]

4 minutes ago, yochlol said:

Irrelevant, once you realize Finland is actually Russia

And was Sweden before that and independed tribes before that, etc.

[yochlol]

1 minute ago, MiGG0 said:

And was Sweden before that and independed tribes before that, etc.

Oh come on, now you're ruining it.