US Armor Platoon Composition

[Tim Sielbeck]

Before M1s US armor platoons were composed of five tanks.  When they converted to M1s they went to four tanks.  Question; was there ever an instance where an M60 equipped tank platoon was four tanks by TOE?

[Harold Jones]

Yes, j series to&e was implemented starting in the early 80s. Most battalions switched to 4 maneuver companies made up of three 4 tank platoons plus 2 hq tanks. The tank companies in the acrs stayed with three 5 tank platoons and 2 hq tanks. The type of tank didn't matter. My unit at Ft Carson had m60a1s and switched in 82. When I was in d Co 1/2 acr when we transitioned to m1s in Feb of 85 and we were still organized in 5 tank platoons when I left in May of 86.

[Tim Sielbeck]

Not asking about Cavalry, just about Armor.  Specifically did any five tank per platoon M60 units switch to a four tank platoon M60 TOE.  The unit I was in in Germany did not switch to a four tank platoon until they got M1s.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Tim Sielbeck

[Harold Jones]

Yes, we (4/40 AR) did it in ft Carson in '83. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Harold Jones

[Josh]

Slightly related, does anyone know the current/future composition of an armored cav troop? I was under the impression the old formation was coming back into style.

[FALightFighter]

23 hours ago, Josh said:

Slightly related, does anyone know the current/future composition of an armored cav troop? I was under the impression the old formation was coming back into style.

This might help.

https://www.battleorder.org/post/waypoint-divisions

In the "Armor Division (Reinforced)" it shows the Armored Cavalry Troops with 2 scout platoons (each with 6 x Bradleys) and 2 tank platoons. BCT troops have an additional NBC Recon platoon that the troops in the divisional cavalry squadron lack. The troop organization is not broken out on the slide for the "Armor DIvision" (not reinforced), but I would guess that it is the same.

 

[Josh]

17 minutes ago, FALightFighter said:

This might help.

https://www.battleorder.org/post/waypoint-divisions

In the "Armor Division (Reinforced)" it shows the Armored Cavalry Troops with 2 scout platoons (each with 6 x Bradleys) and 2 tank platoons. BCT troops have an additional NBC Recon platoon that the troops in the divisional cavalry squadron lack. The troop organization is not broken out on the slide for the "Armor DIvision" (not reinforced), but I would guess that it is the same.

 

Ok, this sounds roughly the same as the org in the 80's, except the scouts are combined into 2x6 instead of 3x4. It occurs to me that a armored cav squadron is comparatively heavy in tanks (4 per platoon plus command track) and AT (the scout vehicles are essentially ATGM vehicles in a direct combat usage)   and could probably go toe to toe with the IFVs and tanks of a BTG (though clearly that org in total is a much larger combined arms formation). It would make for an interesting exercise as a meeting engagement.

[Murph]

When I was in the 2/36th Infantry we were chopped to "B" company 2/32nd Armor, and I remember when they went from 5 tanks to 4 in the early 1980's.  This was 3rd AD in Germany.  I was initially in CSC (Combat Surprise Company as the troops called it), which became Delta company.  The mortars went under HHC.  I got transferred from the 4.2" platoon to 3rd Platoon "C" company at about that time.  

[Tim Sielbeck]

3 hours ago, Murph said:

When I was in the 2/36th Infantry we were chopped to "B" company 2/32nd Armor, and I remember when they went from 5 tanks to 4 in the early 1980's.  This was 3rd AD in Germany.  I was initially in CSC (Combat Surprise Company as the troops called it), which became Delta company.  The mortars went under HHC.  I got transferred from the 4.2" platoon to 3rd Platoon "C" company at about that time.  

This happened while you still had M60's?  

[Murph]

Yes, 3rd Armored was the 3rd in line to get the M-1 tanks, when I left we still had M60A3 tanks in the tank battalions, and M-113's in my battalion.  They started the transition right after I PCS'ed.  

[Tim Sielbeck]

How long was it between the transition to when you PCSed?

[Murph]

Iirc the transition was in 1984, I could be wrong, but that seems right.  

[Tim Sielbeck]

Thank you.

[shootER5]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:28 PM, Tim Sielbeck said:

Before M1s US armor platoons were composed of five tanks.  When they converted to M1s they went to four tanks.  Question; was there ever an instance where an M60 equipped tank platoon was four tanks by TOE?

 

When I was assigned to the divisional cavalry squadron for 49AD in the mid/late 80s we had four M60A3s per tank platoon. PL/wingman, PS/wingman. 

[Murph]

Tim I PCS'ed in 1986, but the transition to a 4 tank platoon was 1984.  We still did not have M-1's by that point, certain tank battalions were starting the transition training when I left.