Pax Americana vs Pax Sinica vs Multipolar World

[glenn239]

9 hours ago, Strannik said:

Visit by Russian navy chief to submarine academy and Chinese shipyard deemed a sign of military ties getting stronger

Nuclear submarine technology is one area where Russian expertise and Chinese industry could work together.

[glenn239]

Chinese imports from Russia highest ever in August,

China’s Imports From Russia Reach Record With Largest Ever Surge - Bloomberg

[Strannik]

2 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Nuclear submarine technology is one area where Russian expertise and Chinese industry could work together.

He knows, he is just salty.

[JWB]

 

[Strannik]

12 minutes ago, JWB said:

 

Is it because there is nobody else to talk to or Biden forgot he already spoke to Modi?

[R011]

Were this Trump, the media slant would be that he was sucking up to another Putin-like authoritarian leader as Modi is somewhat controversial and American media would be sure to play that up. 

[Strannik]

Xi Jinping Is Done With the Established World Order

 

[BansheeOne]

Which would mean that all the talk about BRICS being the next big thing was just so much hot air. No surprise then.

[Josh]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/chinas-central-bank-peruse-bulk-dollar-purchases-sources-2023-09-11/#:~:text=Companies that need to purchase,said one of the sources.

[Josh]

https://www.businessinsider.com/dedollarization-russia-dollar-yuan-billions-india-struggle-use-ruble-2023-6?amp

[Strannik]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:58 PM, BansheeOne said:

Which would mean that all the talk about BRICS being the next big thing was just so much hot air. No surprise then.

Your opinion.

And mine is that is that Chinese would like to built up BRICS as an instrument to create a parallel economic order with China at it's head obviously and less dependent if not free of $ at all.  Some other BRICS members (India :) are not 100% on board, but will likely get there if they want their own trade growth (see example of the RU/IN rupee issues).

Edited September 11 by Strannik

[Strannik]

30 minutes ago, Josh said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/dedollarization-russia-dollar-yuan-billions-india-struggle-use-ruble-2023-6?amp

Indians suggested RU to invest rupees into IN economy

As a result Russia's crude oil shipments to India fall for third consecutive month.

There are currently talks on establishing SOP for trade settlement  https://www.informistmedia.com/chome/talks-russia-smoothening-rupee-trade/

[Strannik]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:44 PM, Strannik said:

Xi Jinping Is Done With the Established World Order

 

Supposedly the trend.

 

 

[Josh]

If China wants to politically disengage from global organizations, they can. It doesn't make them go away.

India is never ceding full control of BRICS to China, and while more transactions may be in local currencies, the problem of a fully convertible currency will continue to limit that activity. BRICS has the same issue as the Nonalignment movement in the cold war: they are only united on one issue; not wanting to go along with the established world order. Nothing else binds them politically or economically.

[BansheeOne]

2 hours ago, Strannik said:

Your opinion.

Actually, stated towards the end of the article you linked (but paywalled now). 😉

Either way, not showing up at a summit hosted by the co-founder of your supposedly up-and-coming alliance after publishing a map which shows part of his territory as yours is probably not a promotional statement for selfsame alliance.

 

[Strannik]

11 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

Actually, stated towards the end of the article you linked (but paywalled now). 😉

Either way, not showing up at a summit hosted by the co-founder of your supposedly up-and-coming alliance after publishing a map which shows part of his territory as yours is probably not a promotional statement for selfsame alliance.

 

BRICS is not NATO where one says jump and others ask how high... I know Germany got used to it  

India has it's own goals and G20 platform suits them. 

China is focusing on BRICS as a better instrument.

Edited September 11 by Strannik

[Strannik]

The G77+China, a group of developing and emerging countries representing 80 percent of the world's population, kicked off a summit in Cuba Friday with a call to "change the rules of the game" of the global order. 

The meeting comes at a time of growing frustration with the Western-led world order amid widening differences over the Russian war in Ukraine, the fight against climate change, and the global economic system.

"After all this time that the North has organized the world according to its interests, it is now up to the South to change the rules of the game"... 

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20230916-g77-china-summit-in-cuba-calls-on-global-south-to-change-the-rules-of-the-game

[Strannik]

Truman on US nation-building of Japan

 

[Strannik]

Cont.

 

[futon]

TOKYO -- Japan and its allies and partners need to convey the "will to fight" to deter China from seeking to change the status quo in the Taiwan Strait, former Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso said in Taipei on Tuesday.

In a keynote speech to the Ketagalan Forum, an Indo-Pacific security dialogue, the vice president of Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party said deterrence only works when three elements are met: having the ability to deter, having the will to carry out necessary actions and conveying both of these elements to the adversary.

"Never has there been a time" when like-minded players like Japan, Taiwan and the U.S. "have needed the resolve to make strong deterrence work than now. It's the will to fight," the 82-year-old politician said.

Since the visit of then-U.S. Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan last August, China has stepped up its aggressive actions toward the island, expanding military drills and crossing over the median line with daily flyovers. President Xi Jinping has said China will strive for peaceful unification but has also noted Beijing "will never promise to renounce the use of force."

The military balance between China and Taiwan is "rapidly tilting to China's favor," Japan said in its annual defense report released last month.

In the Taipei speech, Aso said: "It is not enough to spend money and just having defense capabilities. It is important to make clear to the opponent that we will use those capabilities for the defense of Taiwan, for the stability of the Taiwan Strait. That becomes deterrence"

"Like-minded countries like Japan, Taiwan and the United States, we need to wake up now," Taro Aso told the Ketagalan Forum in Taiwan on Aug. 8. (Screenshot)

Being a close neighbor to Taiwan, Aso said, "We should be the very first one to express our attitude and also to make that message clear to the international community, including China."

The commitment will not change, he said, citing the three defense documents the Japanese government published in December.

Aso pointed to the Falklands War of 1982 as an example where deterrence failed. "Then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher had not signaled accurately to Argentina that the U.K. would defend the Falklands," Aso said. "That small mistake led to the war, and the U.K. had to endure large sacrifices to retake the islands. If the signaling had been clearer, it did not need to happen."

Despite the peace in the region today, "We are tilting toward a time of emergency," Aso warned the audience.

The international community is facing era-defining changes, Aso said. "Isn't it becoming clearer that globalization and interdependence alone do not guarantee peace and development?" he asked, noting that the Russian invasion of Ukraine shows efforts to alter the status quo by force can happen anytime, including in East Asia.

Later on Tuesday, Aso visited President Tsai Ing-wen at the presidential office. Tsai thanked the Japanese government for noting in the communique of the Hiroshima Group of Seven Summit that the peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait is "indispensable" to the security and prosperity of the "international community," a point that she has been making.

Aso said that he had lunch with Taiwan presidential front-runner Vice President William Lai and felt "reassured," after hearing his views on the future of the island.

The visit of the No. 2 official of Japan's ruling party was the first since Japan severed official diplomatic ties with Taiwan in 1972.

On Monday, Aso visited the grave of Lee Teng-hui, Taiwan's first democratically elected president, at a military cemetery on the outskirts of Taipei. Lee was close to the late Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, under whom Aso served as foreign minister. Together, Abe and Aso formed the basis of what is known today as the Free and Open Indo-Pacific concept.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Taiwan-tensions/In-Taiwan-Aso-says-Japan-must-show-will-to-fight-to-deter-China

 

Edited September 19 by futon

[futon]

今ほど我々は 日本 台湾 アメリカ をはじめとした有志の国に強い抑止力を機能させる覚悟が求められているとおもっております。

こんな時代はないのではないか。戦う覚悟です。

いざとなったら (抑止力を) 使う。

台湾の防衛のために

台湾海峡の安定のためにそれを使う。

Nowadays, I believe that from us.. willing countries such as Japan Taiwan the US, a resolute determination to make work a strong deterrance is required.

May it not be so that in this age that it is not there. The resolution to fight.

When the necessity arises, to use it (deterrance).

For the defense of Taiwan

For the stability of the Taiwan Strait, to use it.

 

[futon]

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson’s Remarks on Japanese Politician Taro Aso’s Visit to Taiwan and His Irresponsible Comments

2023-08-09 17:28

Q: It was reported that Vice President of the Liberal Democratic Party and former Prime Minister of Japan Taro Aso has visited Taiwan, where he met with Tsai Ing-wen, William Lai and others and delivered a speech saying that there should be no war in the region, including the Taiwan Strait, and calling for a posture of strong deterrence and “a readiness to fight”. What is your comment?

A: Despite China’s strong opposition, certain Japanese politician visited China’s Taiwan region and made irresponsible remarks that sought to hype up cross-Strait tensions, stoke antagonism and confrontation, and blatantly interfere in China’s internal affairs. This seriously violates the one-China principle and the spirit of the four political documents between China and Japan and tramples on the basic norms governing international relations. China has made serious démarches to Japan and strongly condemns this.

Taiwan is an inalienable part of China’s territory and the Taiwan question is entirely China’s internal affair that brooks no external interference. For half a century, Japan exercised colonial rule over Taiwan, brutally suppressed its people’s resistance and committed atrocious crimes. As a country responsible for the historical crimes it committed against China, Japan needs to all the more draw lessons from history and act prudently. The Japanese politician, however, kept raising the possibility of “a war” whilst in Taiwan—an obvious attempt to stir up trouble in the Taiwan Strait and push the people in the Taiwan region over the edge of an abyss. Today’s China is no longer what it was when the Qing government signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895. What makes this Japanese politician think he is in a position or has the confidence to make such unwarranted remarks on Taiwan? 

I want to stress that the complete reunification of the motherland is the common aspiration of all the sons and daughters of the Chinese nation and an unstoppable historical trend. No one shall underestimate the strong resolve, will and capability of the Chinese people to defend the nation’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We seriously urge Japan to deeply reflect on its history of aggression, abide by the one-China principle and its commitments regarding the Taiwan question, and stop meddling in China’s internal affair and lending support to the “Taiwan independence” separatist forces in any form. We also have a clear message for the Taiwan authorities: “Taiwan independence” has no future, soliciting Japan’s support and selling Taiwan away will only harm the people in Taiwan, and any attempt to collude with external forces in seeking independence and provocations will only fail. 

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2535_665405/202308/t20230809_11124457.html

[urbanoid]

31 minutes ago, futon said:

今ほど我々は 日本 台湾 アメリカ をはじめとした有志の国に強い抑止力を機能させる覚悟が求められているとおもっております。

こんな時代はないのではないか。戦う覚悟です。

いざとなったら (抑止力を) 使う。

台湾の防衛のために

台湾海峡の安定のためにそれを使う。

Nowadays, I believe that from us.. willing countries such as Japan Taiwan the US, a resolute determination to make work a strong deterrance is required.

May it not be so that in this age that it is not there. The resolution to fight.

When the necessity arises, to use it (deterrance).

For the defense of Taiwan

For the stability of the Taiwan Strait, to use it.

 

Based.

24 minutes ago, futon said:

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson’s Remarks on Japanese Politician Taro Aso’s Visit to Taiwan and His Irresponsible Comments

2023-08-09 17:28

Q: It was reported that Vice President of the Liberal Democratic Party and former Prime Minister of Japan Taro Aso has visited Taiwan, where he met with Tsai Ing-wen, William Lai and others and delivered a speech saying that there should be no war in the region, including the Taiwan Strait, and calling for a posture of strong deterrence and “a readiness to fight”. What is your comment?

A: Despite China’s strong opposition, certain Japanese politician visited China’s Taiwan region and made irresponsible remarks that sought to hype up cross-Strait tensions, stoke antagonism and confrontation, and blatantly interfere in China’s internal affairs. This seriously violates the one-China principle and the spirit of the four political documents between China and Japan and tramples on the basic norms governing international relations. China has made serious démarches to Japan and strongly condemns this.

Taiwan is an inalienable part of China’s territory and the Taiwan question is entirely China’s internal affair that brooks no external interference. For half a century, Japan exercised colonial rule over Taiwan, brutally suppressed its people’s resistance and committed atrocious crimes. As a country responsible for the historical crimes it committed against China, Japan needs to all the more draw lessons from history and act prudently. The Japanese politician, however, kept raising the possibility of “a war” whilst in Taiwan—an obvious attempt to stir up trouble in the Taiwan Strait and push the people in the Taiwan region over the edge of an abyss. Today’s China is no longer what it was when the Qing government signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895. What makes this Japanese politician think he is in a position or has the confidence to make such unwarranted remarks on Taiwan? 

I want to stress that the complete reunification of the motherland is the common aspiration of all the sons and daughters of the Chinese nation and an unstoppable historical trend. No one shall underestimate the strong resolve, will and capability of the Chinese people to defend the nation’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We seriously urge Japan to deeply reflect on its history of aggression, abide by the one-China principle and its commitments regarding the Taiwan question, and stop meddling in China’s internal affair and lending support to the “Taiwan independence” separatist forces in any form. We also have a clear message for the Taiwan authorities: “Taiwan independence” has no future, soliciting Japan’s support and selling Taiwan away will only harm the people in Taiwan, and any attempt to collude with external forces in seeking independence and provocations will only fail. 

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2535_665405/202308/t20230809_11124457.html

Haha, get fucked.

[Strannik]

Meanwhile economic production indicator are moving in the right direction: Russia, China  and Global South are 📈  and EU,but particularly Germany, Austria, Chechia, Netherlands, Poland, France and UK 📉

 

 

[Josh]

I've no doubt Russian manufacturing is up dramatically...30% of the proposed 2024 budget is defense spending. That doesn't strike me as a sustainable economic model.