US Finances and its Consequences for Social Policy and Military Spending

[FALightFighter]

13 hours ago, Strannik said:

The share of adults who live in middle-class households fell from 61% in 1971 to 50% in 2021

What is the "magic sequence" that Clinton's economic advisor talked about in the mid-90s? Something like graduate high school, get married before having children, and have first child after age 20? I'll bet that the reduction in the percentage of adults that did those things nearly mirrors the the reduction in middle-class households. There are some cases where life just hands someone a basket of shit, but in many cases it is a direct result of freely undertaken personal choices.

[Strannik]

55 minutes ago, FALightFighter said:

What is the "magic sequence" that Clinton's economic advisor talked about in the mid-90s? Something like graduate high school, get married before having children, and have first child after age 20? I'll bet that the reduction in the percentage of adults that did those things nearly mirrors the the reduction in middle-class households. There are some cases where life just hands someone a basket of shit, but in many cases it is a direct result of freely undertaken personal choices.

Look, nobody cancels personal responsibility,  but I think it's mostly a direct result of globalization, outsourcing or shall we use the corporate-speak- "labor arbitrage" and other corporate friendly policies (like forbidding Medicare to bargain for best drug prices).

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Strannik

[Ivanhoe]

Houses have become bigger and more complicated, with more spendy appliances; but on average, on much smaller plots. 

Can't really compare average new car prices directly; the average new car has more electronics, actuators, etc. than an Apollo capsule. 

That said, the stat which probably tracks things pretty well is the labor participation rate. Fewer workers carrying more nonworkers. 

 

[Strannik]

4 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Houses have become bigger and more complicated, with more spendy appliances; but on average, on much smaller plots. 

Can't really compare average new car prices directly; the average new car has more electronics, actuators, etc. than an Apollo capsule. 

That said, the stat which probably tracks things pretty well is the labor participation rate. Fewer workers carrying more nonworkers. 

 

False argument re: house/car complexity.  Implies worker's productivity stayed the same.

[Strannik]

The PCE Price Index changed by 3.46% per year on average between 1970 and 2023. The total PCE inflation between these dates was 505.34%. 

 

 

 Core CPI, which uses the standard CPI but omits the more volatile categories of food and energy.

Core inflation averaged 3.88% per year between 1970 and 2023 (vs all-CPI inflation of 3.97%), for an inflation total of 650.54%. 

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1970?amount=1

There is big lies and then there is statistics 😉

Edited September 3, 2023 by Strannik

[Strannik]

And btw labor participation increased about 7-8% from 1970: https://www.bls.gov/mlr/1999/12/art1full.pdf

[FALightFighter]

6 hours ago, Strannik said:

Look, nobody cancels personal responsibility,  but I think it's mostly a direct result of globalization, outsourcing or shall we use the corporate-speak- "labor arbitrage" and other corporate friendly policies (like forbidding Medicare to bargain for best drug prices).

What is "it"?

I don't know about wherever you are, but there are plenty of politicians and academics here in the US that what to cancel personal responsibility- that's what the entire cult of victimhood is about. The fundamental idea is that the results for an individual are based PRIMARILY on the group that the individual happens to belong to and the way society is set up for that group instead of the individual's personal merits. Do some people have a harder row to hoe than others? Certainly. Is that the PRIMARY factor in determining outcomes? I propose that it generally is not.

[urbanoid]

14 minutes ago, FALightFighter said:

What is "it"?

I don't know about wherever you are, but there are plenty of politicians and academics here in the US that what to cancel personal responsibility- that's what the entire cult of victimhood is about. The fundamental idea is that the results for an individual are based PRIMARILY on the group that the individual happens to belong to and the way society is set up for that group instead of the individual's personal merits. Do some people have a harder row to hoe than others? Certainly. Is that the PRIMARY factor in determining outcomes? I propose that it generally is not.

Yep, working hard is a white trait and therefore racist.

Quote

Smithsonian Institution Explains That ‘rationality’ & ‘hard Work’ Are Racist

In the wake of the police killing of George Floyd and subsequent protests over police brutality, interest in “anti-racist” education has exploded among educators and advocates. The case that educators should seek to combat racism seems self-evident. What’s less clear is how the admirable cause of “anti-racism” is fueling, in some corners, the inclination to denounce universal virtues and useful skills as the product of “white culture.”

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/smithsonian-institution-explains-that-rationality-hard-work-are-racist/

[Strannik]

2 hours ago, FALightFighter said:

What is "it"?

I don't know about wherever you are, but there are plenty of politicians and academics here in the US that what to cancel personal responsibility- that's what the entire cult of victimhood is about. The fundamental idea is that the results for an individual are based PRIMARILY on the group that the individual happens to belong to and the way society is set up for that group instead of the individual's personal merits. Do some people have a harder row to hoe than others? Certainly. Is that the PRIMARY factor in determining outcomes? I propose that it generally is not.

"It" is a decline (or a demise if you will) of the middle class in the US.  And while I am in NYC and therefore can hardly be blamed to be oblivious to the voke  bubble, I do not believe it's the primary or even secondary reason.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Strannik

[Strannik]

Coins cost twice (to make) their value

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Strannik

[Ivanhoe]

11 hours ago, Strannik said:

False argument re: house/car complexity.  Implies worker's productivity stayed the same.

Bullshit. Price in real terms is independent of worker productivity. 

 

[Josh]

8 hours ago, Strannik said:

Coins cost twice (to make) their value

 

 

And two hundred times the ruble. Certainly I agree that the US should stop producing pennies.

[Strannik]

9 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Bullshit. Price in real terms is independent of worker productivity. 

 

You are expecting a worker to be paid independent of their productivity growth  but them to pay for goods and services the adjusted price?

[Strannik]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

And two hundred times the ruble. 

What is? If you are stressing the exchange rate you could have achieved the greater effect using yen or won.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, Strannik said:

You are expecting a worker to be paid independent of their productivity growth  but them to pay for goods and services the adjusted price?

What I expect is irrelevant. The mechanics of the labor market determines wages. 

[Strannik]

16 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

What I expect is irrelevant. The mechanics of the labor market determines wages. 

This a non sequitur.  We are talking about the proper way to do statistics and you come with your ... valued opinion on the matter.

Oh and yes, magical "market" that is helped by the hand in the government via laws, subsidies and interventions into labor disputes.  🤡

[futon]

1 hour ago, Strannik said:

What is? If you are stressing the exchange rate you could have achieved the greater effect using yen or won.

1 US cent is approximate to 1 yen. 1 US dollar is approximate to 100 yen. The yen is weak now, 100 US cent = 145 yen. So a 1 to 1.45 ratio. Before 2014, the dollar to ruble was 100 US cent to about 30 ruble. Post 2014 events it leveled off to around 100 US cent to 60 ruble. If taking 100 to 30 as standard then that would be 1 to 1 ratio. Post 2014 it becomes 1 to 2 ratio, already far higher than even today's yen. Right now the ruble is really weak, where its 100 US cents to 90 ruble. That means a ratio of 1 to 3. The same ratio in yen would mean 100 US cents to 300 yen. The last time the yen was that weak was around 1976. The ruble is extremely weak right now. The won is basically same as yen in value with one more zero at the end. 100 cents is approximate to 1000 won. Right now the ratio is 1 to 1.34.

[Strannik]

6 minutes ago, futon said:

1 US cent is approximate to 1 yen. 1 US dollar is approximate to 100 yen. The yen is weak now, 100 US cent = 145 yen. So a 1 to 1.45 ratio. Before 2014, the dollar to ruble was 100 US cent to about 30 ruble. Post 2014 events it leveled off to around 100 US cent to 60 ruble. If taking 100 to 30 as standard then that would be 1 to 1 ratio. Post 2014 it becomes 1 to 2 ratio, already far higher than even today's yen. Right now the ruble is really weak, where its 100 US cents to 90 ruble. That means a ratio of 1 to 3. The same ratio in yen would mean 100 US cents to 300 yen. The last time the yen was that weak was around 1976. The ruble is extremely weak right now. The won is basically same as yen in value with one more zero at the end. 100 cents is approximate to 1000 won. Right now the ratio is 1 to 1.34.

Ratio of what? Zero at the end?! Gibberish and rubbish logic.

[futon]

7 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Ratio of what? Zero at the end?! Gibberish and rubbish logic.

A typical dining out dinner in the US is about 10 USD. For Japan, it's 1000 yen. And for ROK, its 10,000 won. That's were the ratios are set. In the past 20 years, the yen has bounced within the margins of 145 yen and 80 yen to the dollar. Where as the ruble has stayed steady at roughly 1 USD to 30 ruble for over 10 years until 2014, then it fell to twice as weak and stayed there until 2022 and now its pushing towards three times as weak relative to the decade prior 2014.

[Strannik]

18 minutes ago, futon said:

A typical dining out dinner in the US is about 10 USD. For Japan, it's 1000 yen. And for ROK, its 10,000 won. That's were the ratios are set. In the past 20 years, the yen has bounced within the margins of 145 yen and 80 yen to the dollar. Where as the ruble has stayed steady at roughly 1 USD to 30 ruble for over 10 years until 2014, then it fell to twice as weak and stayed there until 2022 and now its pushing towards three times as weak relative to the decade prior 2014.

Ah, so you are talking about PPP?  But using now a restaurant meal as a marker?

Well, first you are wrong even in this very one sided (only compares cost of food and labor/service) - US diner (low quality) meal will be $20 now.  In Russia and Japan and SK it's very close: $6.22/6.84.  I can't  vouch for SK/Japan but US and RU pricing are pretty on point.

https://www.numbeo.com22 -6.84/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=1

The rest of your thoughts are so poorly organized and explained that I cannot comment further.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Strannik

[sunday]

Price of goods and services in a free market is determined by the market itself, and it is not the "fair value" that those goods and services should have considering the labor and the raw materials that went into them. Saint Thomas Aquinas already wrote on that matter during the 13th century.

The "fair value" concept is one of the main mistakes of Marxian economics.

[Strannik]

18 minutes ago, sunday said:

Price of goods and services in a free market is determined by the market itself, and it is not the "fair value" that those goods and services should have considering the labor and the raw materials that went into them. Saint Thomas Aquinas already wrote on that matter during the 13th century.

The "fair value" concept is one of the main mistakes of Marxian economics.

Who said anything about "fair value" here?

Trying a Don Quixote mantle?

[sunday]

3 hours ago, Strannik said:

You are expecting a worker to be paid independent of their productivity growth  but them to pay for goods and services the adjusted price?

 

9 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Who said anything about "fair value" here?

Trying a Don Quixote mantle?

Looks like you did...

DQ did not wear a mantle.

Edited September 4, 2023 by sunday

[Strannik]

Just now, sunday said:

 

Looks like you did...

Please quote or retract.

[sunday]

Just now, Strannik said:

Please quote or retract.

Already done.