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Because, in Israel someone said "Japan"


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11 hours ago, rmgill said:

Its a precise use of the terms and the alignment. Were Soviet Socialists also nationalist? 

Not really, but Yugoslav ones were (both Yugoslavia based nationalism and local ethnic one), so were Albanian, Vietnamese, North Korean and many, many more. Again, you are making mistake by think that "All communists/socialists were the same". They are not.

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6 minutes ago, bojan said:

Not really, but Yugoslav ones were (both Yugoslavia based nationalism and local ethnic one), so were Albanian, Vietnamese, North Korean and many, many more. Again, you are making mistake by think that "All communists/socialists were the same". They are not.

Cannot speak for Europe, but in the U.S. communists and socialist are the same evil.

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7 minutes ago, bojan said:

Not really, but Yugoslav ones were (both Yugoslavia based nationalism and local ethnic one), so were Albanian, Vietnamese, North Korean and many, many more. Again, you are making mistake by think that "All communists/socialists were the same". They are not.

I think the Soviets were nationalist. The Soviet Union was the dominating Communist power in their world view and all other communist nations had to accept the authority of the Soviets. One could only argue that the interests of global communism was equal to the interests of the Soviet Union, by their definition.

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That could be also bunched under "nationalist", but is distinct form from more "classical" version of nationalism as played by China.

Edited by bojan
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48 minutes ago, seahawk said:

I think the Soviets were nationalist. The Soviet Union was the dominating Communist power in their world view and all other communist nations had to accept the authority of the Soviets. One could only argue that the interests of global communism was equal to the interests of the Soviet Union, by their definition.

For quite a lot of time the dominating communist power was competing with a certain ascendant communist power around the world, supporting their communists against other side's communists, in a contest to show that they're 'communister'.

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Lets try this. 

Taking From Roger Scrunton again.....From the Palgrave McMillan Dictionary of Political Thought. 

nationalism

1. The sentiment and ideology of attachment to a nation and to its interest.

2. The theory that a state (perhaps every state) should be founded in a nation, and that a nation should be constituted as a state. Hence, the attempt to uphold national identity through political action. National identity is something more than nationhood: it involves, not only the territorial integrity, common language, custom and culture noted above as essential to the idea of a nation, but also consciousness of these, as determining distinct rights and duties. This consciousness is held to render intelligible and to justify the habits of association among neighbours. (In its extreme form nationalism might involve the emergence of an ethno-centric or even racist ideology.)

Nationalism has often been thought to be a political reaction to the Napoleonic conquest of Europe, and to the break-up over the centuries of the Empire in Central Europe. However, that is misleading, if it is meant to imply, e.g., that the ideology of national self-determination neither preceded Napoleon in Europe, nor occurred independently elsewhere. It is more plausible to say that there emerged from the Napoleonic attempts at European government an associa- tion of nationalism and legal and polit- ical ideals of the nationstate. These ideals attempt to find the ingredients of political obligation and political identity in allegiances which are in some sense less than wholly political – matters of geographical, cultural and ethnic association. The motive is to find some binding force between people that is stronger than any revocable agreement to be governed, wider than any merely personal affection, and sufficiently public to lend itself to the foundation of political institutions and laws. (See pre-political order.)

Some oppose nationalism to patriotism. Any number of contrasts might be intended; for example, that between a sentiment of attachment (patriotism), and an ideology of national superiority (nationalism); or that between a respect for political institutions and laws (patriotism), and an attachment to race, language and custom (nationalism). Modern nation- alism is often decried, on account, e.g., of its attempt to found political obligation in purely social allegiances, or its alleged irrationalism, or its opposition to *universalist doctrines, or its nascent belligerence or xenophobia. Patriotism might then be proposed as a beneficent alternative, a senti- ment which fills the gap between obligations incurred and obedience required, without having recourse to a bellicose fiction of national integrity. However, both ‘nationalism’ and ‘patriotism’ are used loosely, and, as defined in this dictionary, they are clearly compatible.

The defence of a politics of national identity is part of the legacy of Central European romanticism, and found early expression in the writings of Herder and Fichte. In the UK nationalism is confined to the Celtic fringes, where, it has been asso- ciated with movements for home rule in Ireland, Scotland and – to some extent – Wales. English nation- alism is virtually unknown, at least under that description. The same could be said of American national- ism, although the US has defined itself successfully as a nation, has attached itself firmly to a cherished territory, and generated the strongest form of contemporary patriotism.

Perhaps the greatest rise in nationalism in recent years has been in post communist Europe – especially in the provinces of the former Yugoslavia and the republics of the former USSR. The emergence of nationalist movements in these places is commonly attributed to one or other or both of two causes: first, the existence of ethnic, religious and social conflicts which the communist system had suppressed but not resolved, and which have suddenly come to the surface; second, the need to find grounds for the *legitimacy of a new social and political order without relying on the discredited search for a unifying ideology. Perhaps the matter can be put in more simple terms: in the communist state, they are in charge. After the overthrow of communism, we are in charge. But who are we? This is the question to which nationalism provides the easiest and the most emotive answer.

 
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6 hours ago, urbanoid said:

For quite a lot of time the dominating communist power was competing with a certain ascendant communist power around the world, supporting their communists against other side's communists, in a contest to show that they're 'communister'.

As a person with overseas family members who were Commies, their philosophy was that the USSR and it's leading communist party was ALWAYS right, so they always toed the party line.

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21 hours ago, urbanoid said:

For quite a lot of time the dominating communist power was competing with a certain ascendant communist power around the world, supporting their communists against other side's communists, in a contest to show that they're 'communister'.

Agree, but for the Soviets the Soviet Uniom were the leading communists and the Chinese were not seen as equals. This is imho one of the reason why nationalism remained stronger within China, as this allowed them to differentiate their form of Communism from the Soviets. For the Soviets toying with nationalism would not make sense, as if you are the leading communist country and believe in communist internationalism, you are already the dominating global power.

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